Originally posted by NonSensi-KlownIgnoring the fact that that's your opinion, Kenobi has retreated from Ventress twice in the comics as is, and only survived his duel in CD because of Fisto's intervention. As of RotS he's probably better overall, but it's by a very small margin.
No matter what anyone says or how you look at it, Obi-Wan was owning the shit out of her.
Originally posted by Faunus
Ignoring the fact that that's your opinion,
And you'd have to be an idiot to not surmise the same thing.
Feel free to explain why she couldn't land a single scratch when he didn't even have a lightsaber... that's not "opinion". That's fact.
And as noted, him using one hand was able to push back Assaj's strength and her body weight.
Seriously, man.
Kenobi has retreated from Ventress twice in the comics as is, and only survived his duel in CD because of Fisto's intervention. As of RotS he's probably better overall, but it's by a very small margin.
I don't recall him having too difficult a time with her in Obsession either, though I haven't read the comic in awhile.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Yeah, he embarrassed her. It was kind of disghusting, actually, because I like ventress and it was kind of sad to see Obi-Wan defeat her with so little effort.No matter what anyone says or how you look at it, Obi-Wan was owning the shit out of her.
LOL, Obi-Wan darling-ed her. I can't believe she let him get away with that.
And, Enyalus, I would just like to destroy the misconception that Obi-Wan somehow defeated Grievous with ease. He did not, and both the script and the novelization support that- you can even seen it via his expression during the saberlock between them.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
And, Enyalus, I would just like to destroy the misconception that Obi-Wan somehow defeated Grievous with ease. He did not, and both the script and the novelization support that- you can even seen it via his expression during the saberlock between them.
The novelization is pretty clear that he was able to dismember Grievous' multiple arms easily enough. And saberlock? Of course he'd have difficulty with that. Grievous has immense physical strength.
Originally posted by Enyalus
The novelization is pretty clear that he was able to dismember Grievous' multiple arms easily enough. And saberlock? Of course he'd have difficulty with that. Grievous has immense physical strength.
I don't know if 'easily enough' is the correct word. Considering that Grievous was capable of overloading Obi-Wan's nigh-impenetrable defense, I'd say that should speak for Grievous' ability and Obi-Wan's overall difficulty in the fight. He certainly didn't beat Grievous 'comfortably'.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I don't know if 'easily enough' is the correct word. Considering that Grievous was capable of overloading Obi-Wan's nigh-impenetrable defense, I'd say that should speak for Grievous' ability and Obi-Wan's overall difficulty in the fight. He certainly didn't beat Grievous 'comfortably'.
Yeah, he does. He's easily blocking 12-16 strikes per second (he's thinking that - I'll find the quote when home). When it becomes too much, he switches to offense and disarms him by simply reangling the blade and sliding it upward a little.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, he does. He's easily blocking 12-16 strikes per second (he's thinking that - I'll find the quote when home). When it becomes too much, he switches to offense and disarms him by simply reangling the blade and sliding it upward a little.
'Easily'? You're going to have to prove that.
And according to the script- which does not contradict the movie or add things that aren't seen in it during the fight- Obi-Wan was hard-pressed to fend off Grievous:
"OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught."
So, yeah.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And you'd have to be an idiot to not surmise the same thing.Feel free to explain why she couldn't land a single scratch when he didn't even have a lightsaber... that's not "opinion". That's fact.
And as noted, him using one hand was able to push back Assaj's strength and her body weight.Seriously, man.
Wow. I really don't see how that video showed him "owning" her at all. It was either even or tilted slightly in her favor most of the time. And Asajj was definately using her strength to fight off Obi-wan's Force push?
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
'Easily'? You're going to have to prove that.And according to the script- which does not contradict the movie or add things that aren't seen in it during the fight- Obi-Wan was hard-pressed to fend off Grievous:
"OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught."
So, yeah.
'The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. Not one touched him.
After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.
Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. -slice-
The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severed lightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first finger of the hand that had held it.
Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber.
Obi-Wan smiled at him.
Grievous lunged.
Obi-Wan parried.
Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.
Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky-colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.
Anywhere else.
Obi-Wan stepped toward him...'
Sure. It says difficult (precluded with an 'only'😉, but does that really sound like Obi-Wan was having a hard time with Grievous at all? Even the slightest bit? He dominated him. Grievous was afraid while Obi-Wan was smiling - he was in complete control.
Originally posted by Enyalus
'The electrodrivers powering Grievous's mechanical arms let each of the four attack thrice in a single second; integrated by combat algorithms in the bio-droid's electronic network of peripheral processors, each of the twelve strikes per second came from a different angle with different speed and intensity, an unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes, chops, and stabs of which every single one could take Obi-Wan's life. [b]Not one touched him.After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet-swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters.
Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks-sixteen per second, eighteen-until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. -slice-
The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severed lightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first finger of the hand that had held it.
Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber.
Obi-Wan smiled at him.
Grievous lunged.
Obi-Wan parried.
Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.
Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky-colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.
Anywhere else.
Obi-Wan stepped toward him...'
Sure. It says difficult (precluded with an 'only'😉, but does that really sound like Obi-Wan was having a hard time with Grievous at all? Even the slightest bit? He dominated him. Grievous was afraid while Obi-Wan was smiling - he was in complete control. [/B]
So? It never once states if Obi-Wan actually handled Grievous barrage with ease- in fact, we have to assume that it was difficult for him, considering that Obi-Wan's defense was 'overloaded' when Grievous reached his maximum capability. Yes, Obi-Wan had a 'hard time' fending Grievous off- sure, he was in control of the situation, but blocking Grievous' assault was -this- close to being too much for him.
Originally posted by Faunus
Ignoring the fact that that's your opinion, Kenobi has retreated from Ventress twice in the comics as is, and only survived his duel in CD because of Fisto's intervention. As of RotS he's probably better overall, but it's by a very small margin.
Kenobi never wanted to hurt Ventress in the comics. and in the animation it was Ventress who ran away from Kenobi. although im a bit confused where exactly that fits in continuity.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
So? It never once states if Obi-Wan actually handled Grievous barrage with ease- in fact, we have to assume that it was difficult for him, considering that Obi-Wan's defense was 'overloaded' when Grievous reached his maximum capability. Yes, Obi-Wan had a 'hard time' fending Grievous off- sure, he was in control of the situation, but blocking Grievous' assault was -this- close to being too much for him.
Bull. When Obi-Wan wants to stop defending, it takes him a split second to disarm Grievous. GG attacks again, Obi-Wan uses another parry and off comes yet another arm. The movie depicts similar ownage.
Obi-Wan was dominate. He handled Grievous with ease. I didn't say anything about his 'barrage.'
If we go by 'the movie', Obi-Wan evidently struggles when he gets into a saberlock with General Grievous, so, clearly it wasn't 'easy' for him to gain control of Grievous. Clearly, Obi-Wan's Soresu had difficulty containing General Grievous' barrage.
So, yeah. While Obi-Wan may never have been truly in danger of dying, nothing about the duel was 'easy', or a walk in the park for him.
actaully, the novelization and the movie both make it seem like obi-wan handled the lightsaber duel with ridiculous ease. I was about to type in the exact passage enyalus quoted to prove it from the novel, and on-screen, its even easier. The only place he struggled was in the hand to hand, after losing his lightsaber.
Originally posted by truejedi
there is nothing besides reasoning that suggest Obi-wan struggled during the saber-lock though... i mean, in the next second grievous is losing arms, so apparently kenobi came out of that lock exactly how he wanted to.
I was referring to the expression he has on his face. I would imagine anyone would have a strained expression while holding back the amount of force Grievous can exert.
Originally posted by truejedi
there is nothing besides reasoning that suggest Obi-wan struggled during the saber-lock though... i mean, in the next second grievous is losing arms, so apparently kenobi came out of that lock exactly how he wanted to.
Agreed. And using 5% of the duel (one saberlock) to justify the argument that Obi-Wan struggled is simply idiotic. Especially when strength =/ dueling skill and really had little bearing on the outcome of the battle.