No one is saying that Qui-Gon isn't a Jedi. He never left the order, and still followed the Jedi Code and edicts of the Council. The discussion (as I understand it) refers to the concept of Jedi who have left the order, for whatever reason. This includes Jedi who never achieved knighthood, like Jolee.
Originally posted by truejedi
Vergere was one... but Kreia was unquestionably a sith. she wouldn't go on a list like this.
Have to totally disagree there. Though she did indeed turn back to sith she advocates teachings from both and at the same time despises the force as in she admitted neither side was more powerful then the other. In fact throughout most of KOTOR 2 she is the only one whos alignment you cant influence, stays dead center neutral and can be equipped with Jolee Bindo's gray jedi robes. In short kreia at certain points of her life and in the game can only be described as a gray jedi.
In reference to her disliking the force isnt that kind of a gray jedi personality attribute or something? I mean jolee bindo was real cynical and from them star war comics I read(only bits here and there) that cadre guy doesnt even want anything to do with the force.
PS> Played the game recently there really wish they made a third one its why I found these forums😛
PSS> in defense of the whole gray jedi thing....Across much media they have referenced force sensitives being born from jedi....For example a easy one for ya folks...Anakin skywalker getting his rocks of with the naboo queen(ok he went all out and fell to the darkside) but yea arent jedi supposed to be celibate, if thats not walking the line what is? they couldnt have all fell to the darkside either.
Originally posted by JayJohn85
Have to totally disagree there. Though she did indeed turn back to sith she advocates teachings from both and at the same time despises the force as in she admitted neither side was more powerful then the other. In fact throughout most of KOTOR 2 she is the only one whos alignment you cant influence, stays dead center neutral and can be equipped with Jolee Bindo's gray jedi robes. In short kreia at certain points of her life and in the game can only be described as a gray jedi.
It's like she was undercover! 🥷
Originally posted by JayJohn85
In reference to her disliking the force isnt that kind of a gray jedi personality attribute or something? I mean jolee bindo was real cynical and from them star war comics I read(only bits here and there) that cadre guy doesnt even want anything to do with the force.
Originally posted by JayJohn85
PS> Played the game recently there really wish they made a third one its why I found these forums😛
Originally posted by JayJohn85
PSS> in defense of the whole gray jedi thing....Across much media they have referenced force sensitives being born from jedi....For example a easy one for ya folks...Anakin skywalker getting his rocks of with the naboo queen(ok he went all out and fell to the darkside) but yea arent jedi supposed to be celibate, if thats not walking the line what is? they couldnt have all fell to the darkside either.
NOOO DEY IN MEH HOME STEALIN MEH GAMEZ!!! *Burns house* Well that was easy o.0
Anyway...I have a different opinion on Jolee...that might explain MY Theory and Others...You see..Jolee is a Grey Jedi...and yes he has a very Slight alignment with the Lightside..But alot of Grey Jedi help the Jedi..even tho they dont rejoin them or in Qui Gon Jinn's area are still mavricks..Now we do learn that Jolee in somepoint Did rejoin the Jedi..But since most of his life is as a Grey Jedi..then well..he is...Now I know ur gonna hate me for that..but oh well..I CANT PLEASE EVERYONE o.0
Originally posted by Red NemesisNo. There can be no question that Kreia is a Sith. Her teachings are almost uniformly dark, and there is a great deal of emphasis on self-sufficiency. Her admonishments 'not to help- it demeans the one you helped, as well as yourself' are very Sith-like. The fact that she concedes the two sides' relative equality does not make her gray- she still uses the Dark side of the Force to achieve her ends. The influence system is a game mechanic, and as such is not canon. If it was canon, we could still argue that she was hiding her alignment from the Exile, as she would hardly like to have her position of influence with the 'wound in the Force' removed. She needed the Exile as a student and as a tool; Kreia wasn't going to jeopardize her place at the Exile's side by telling the party of her own Sith affiliation. Also, the speed with which she transforms back into Darth Traya might be an indication that she was just waiting to step back into that role.[/B]
Some very solid points matey but your first one is wrong she doesnt admonish(what a nice word) help she merely points out all things are connected and it is possible to do more harm from a charitable act than say punching someone.....That part of the game was rather interesting maybe alluding to something in her past that may have contributed to her fall.
Your colloquialisms aside (matey?) you are without a doubt the most intelligent newbie here.
I still have to disagree with you though.
Originally posted by JayJohn85
Some very solid points matey but your first one is wrong she doesnt admonish(what a nice word) help she merely points out all things are connected and it is possible to do more harm from a charitable act than say punching someone...
The idea that helping someone can actually cause harm is the opposite of the Jedi way. In Shatterpoint, Mace wonders if he could not save a group of children's lives without leaving the Jedi path. Jedi help people. Sith don't. Sith focus on themselves. Kreia was telling the Exile that even if she wanted to help people she should focus on how much she would make herself stronger. The emphasis is still on looking inward. Also, Kreia's talk of manipulations of events look to me like a dark sider using shatterpoint (the technique). Even while she is concealing her alignment, she still seems to be focusing on 'Sith-like' uses of the force.
Originally posted by JayJohn85
..That part of the game was rather interesting maybe alluding to something in her past that may have contributed to her fall.
I would love to get more definite back story on Kreia.
Wrong, the Imperial Knights are not gray, but follow the Light Side. Recently confirmed, too, with one of the Knights refusing to follow an order to obtain a Sith artifact because he believes it will cause the Emperor to fall to the Dark Side, at which point they have to dispose of him. There is a loophole in their rules where they do not have to follow Emperor Fel if he is not following the Light Side himself.
So no, not Gray, Knightfall. Your turn to be wrong. 😉
And it is more that people don't really want to accept how the whole issue of canon works, Blax.