Originally posted by Faunusstill obi wan should know that anakin isnt effective with jar kai
Because throwing someone a two-pound metal bar is the same as jumping up and effectively fighting one of the greatest and most powerful swordsmen in history?Duh. Everything's a plot device.
Doesn't mean it didn't happen, or is somehow less relevant.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
No, but it doesn't make him "strong" either.
by that logic no one but Sidious is strong.
anyone who can even fight yoda HAS TO BE very strong.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Except they weren't on equal ground. Every time Yoda and Dooku fought Yoda was holding back, and the second time they fought theywere fighting on a planet that was so steeped in the dark side that it gave him a power boost, yet he still couldn't win.
If your referring to Vjun the novel states Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly.." also the darkness of Vjun was making Yoda more fierce and relentless than ever!
it also stated that Yoda was willing to kill Dooku. "even in this dark place love you enough to kill you i do.." suggesting he was always "Willing" to kill Dooku. so learn to read WHOLE pages. it might improve your literacy and your intelligence. Just MAYBE in your case.
and "holding back" is quite ambiguous. holding back by how much?? by
5% of his power , 15%?? your just making basless assumptions to downgrade Dookus feat of being one of the elite few who can even attempt to fight Yoda.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
When Dooku can stalemate the chosen the one in a force duel or send a cyborg flying hundreds of feet you can call me. 🙂.
Hes already proven on more than one occasion that hes FAR SUPERIOR to Anakin or Obi-Wan in the Force. Your being seriously stupid.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
No, thats not what I meant. I meant what I said, Dooku ran. You're claiming that they were "matched"? Prove it.
Just use your eyes! they were exactly even matching each other blade for blade, neither of them giving ground. and no he didnt "Run." Show me the scene where he "Ran." You cant, because it doesnt exist. he casually walked away laughing, while Mace was falling down disarmed.
And Dookus smart. hes not as dumb as you to stay and fight a long drawn out fight with Mace just to prove he can do that! while in the mean time all the other jedis come and make sure he has absolutely no chance of escape. seriously try using your brain.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And Yoda was beggining to overpower Sideous as the fight went on. What are you saying?.
you seriously are blind if thats what you saw. neway what im saying is that Sith are not as dumb as you, and would rather escape than have a fight to the death with someone whose very possibly their equal and has just as much chance of killing them as vice versa.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And then ended when Anakin went all otu and got "in teh zone", at which point Dooku got his ass whooped near effortlessly?
actually that was with effort. It was Dooku who disposed of Obi1 Effortlessly. and simultaneously kicked Anakin across the room and onto his rear Effortlessly. Seriously dude you need to get your eyes tested, and get a new prescription for your glasses.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You seem dead set on discussing Kenobi vs. Obi-Wan, so lets do so.Kenobi knew Skywalker's fighting style inside and out. Skywalker was in a rage- he was out of his mind. Obi-Wan was better able to utilize terrain effectively. All of this shows that Kenobi was the better duelist. Anakin may have been more skilled, but Kenobi will still win against an enraged Anakin. He is a much smarter fighter.
LOL kenobi is obi wan
I want to join discussion also
Some rather interesting points I have not seen brought up yet. The events leading up to the AOTC duel; surviving the execution attempt, wielding an unfamiliar lightsaber, having just survived the nefarious battle at Geonosis, Kenobi takes on Dooku alone. These in tandem already suggest a considerable advantage for the Count. Examining the mark of contact is also quite telling, the following is taken from The Essential Guide to the Force, Jedi vs. Sith: "Shiim is any kind of wound that is made with the edge of a lightsaber blade. An inconclusive mark of contact, shiim is considered inferior to other marks that decisively end a battle. Thus, its appearance expresses nothing more than a struggle with a powerful opponent (114)" As opposed to the wound young Skywalker suffered, Cho mai; to cut off the weapon hand, which "is considered the mark of a superior lightsaber master" It seems if anyones pride took a substantial dive post the AOTC duel it was doubtful Kenobi's.
The ROTS duel has, prior to Kenobi's pristine disposal, him neatly disposing of Dooku's droids, which suggests somewhat of a cheapshot, but surely all is fair in love and war
Count Dooku was an incredible fighter, he defeated Obi Wan in a duel ( although Obi Wan was only a Jedi Knight) he then cut off Anakins arm. He then fought Yoda ( in which he might have lost, but by distracting Yoda, he was able to flee, showing his fighting awarness). Didn't he fight Mace Windu to a stalemate???. All that in mind, he just wasn't as good as Anakin, but remember, Anakin is the chosen one, he wasn't just a normal jedi knight. Only Obi Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker were able to defeat Anakin.
Point is, Dooku was a brilliant fighter and a definate genius, but cmo'n only the truly greatest could defeat Anakin.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If your referring to Vjun the novel states Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly.." also the darkness of Vjun was making Yoda more fierce and relentless than ever!
it also stated that Yoda was willing to kill Dooku. "even in this dark place love you enough to kill you i do.." suggesting he was always "Willing" to kill Dooku. so learn to read WHOLE pages. it might improve your literacy and your intelligence. Just MAYBE in your case.
Here is the definition of willing: Disposed or inclined; prepared.
Here is the definition of try: To make an effort to do or accomplish (something); attempt.
Do you see the difference? Willing to do something and trying to do something are different things.
and "holding back" is quite ambiguous. holding back by how much?? byYoda was not trying to kill Dooku, he was only willing to. Yoda was holding back on Dooku.
5% of his power , 15%?? your just making basless assumptions to downgrade Dookus feat of being one of the elite few who can even attempt to fight Yoda.
My proof:
Yoda never used the force on Dooku as a weapon, he only used it to shrug off Dooku's attacks.
Proof to that statement:
When Dooku tried to hearl machinery and debris at Yoda, Yoda threw them aside instead of throwing them back at him. When Sidious attempted to crush Yoda with a senate pod, Yoda used the force to throw it back, not aside. Face it Yoda is far above Dooku in the force.
Yoda did not even seem to feel threatened by Dooku, using the statement "Much to learn you still have."
Hes already proven on more than one occasion that hes FAR SUPERIOR to Anakin or Obi-Wan in the Force. Your being seriously stupid.As far as mastery yes.
Just use your eyes! they were exactly even matching each other blade for blade, neither of them giving ground. and no he didnt "Run." Show me the scene where he "Ran." You cant, because it doesnt exist. he casually walked away laughing, while Mace was falling down disarmed.If you are refering to the duel between Dooku and Mace, i seem to recall Dooku having the help of two magna guards.
you seriously are blind if thats what you saw. neway what im saying is that Sith are not as dumb as you, and would rather escape than have a fight to the death with someone whose very possibly their equal and has just as much chance of killing them as vice versa.Jedi also run when they seem to feel threatened, such as Yoda "running after his fight with Sidious. Fisto after his fight with Grievous and the magna guards.
actually that was with effort. It was Dooku who disposed of Obi1 Effortlessly. and simultaneously kicked Anakin across the room and onto his rear Effortlessly. Seriously dude you need to get your eyes tested, and get a new prescription for your glasses.Dooku's thoughts on Anakin were that he was a storm waiting to be unleashed. After using taunts against Anakin, Dooku released that storm and became overpowered by it, and thus being killed.
So we have the master of Form II (Makashi[Dooku])
Against
the master of Form III (Soresu[Obi-Wan])
"During his duel with Count Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand, Kenobi's expertise in Soresu allowed him to parry the Count's elegant Makashi strikes."
Also
"Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi, despite his preference for Soresu, applied Shii-Cho elements and Ataru acrobatics into his swordplay, as evidenced by his recollection of his intense duel with the Sith Lord Count Dooku on board the Invisible Hand. This, however, he did to confuse Dooku, as he later switched back to his true form, Soresu."
So I believe that Obi-Wan has the ability to defeat Dooku since he's a smarter fighter and possibly be able to tire Dooku out over time, but this is countered by Dooku's strength in the Force, however overall i would most likely give it to Obi-Wan 6/10 terrain permitting.
I believe that Kenobi is an inferior swordsman compared to Dooku. I know Kenobi has an advanced skill with swordplay and even the force but Dooku is superior. That's just how it is. Kenobi failed to outmaneuver Dooku in lightsaber fights and with the force. Why should we just assume he has more skill? Did he show some hidden skill I didn't see when he was trapped under a giant walkway?
Originally posted by Genesis
Did he show some hidden skill I didn't see when he was trapped under a giant walkway?
Battle Meditation...
He was waiting for the right moment to strike...then realised he was unconcious and pinned to the ground...
Force wise, Dooku completely obliterated Obi-Wan...simply because Dooku has train with both sides of the force so his knowledge was open.
Obi-Wan however failed at saber combat, because he's not agressive, he's a preferably passive jedi. If Dooku vs. Obi-Wan took place on Mustafar, no doubt Dooku would have been in a metal suit 5 hours later...not sure why i'm trying to defend Obi-Wan here, everything i come up with shows that Dooku is the superior...everything.
Well, it's essential fact that Kenobi isn't nearly as proficient offensively as he is defensively. I'd say that Dooku is the superior swordsman, but in a strict clashing of sabers, it would take him (or anyone else) forever to breach Kenobi's defense without an application of supernatural physical strength and speed.