Re: Rank these comic films
Originally posted by Accel
Rank 'em from best to relative worstDark Knight
Batman Begins
Spider-Man 2
Superman Returns
Incredible Hulk
Daredevil (Director’s Cut)
X-2
Iron Man
Blade
Hellboy
i like them all a fair bit bar daredevil, superman returns and x2... rest are very watchable imo...
I didn't see Blade, and have only seen the theatrical cut of Daredevil(and that's at the bottom of this list.)
So...
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins, Iron Man, Spider Man 2, X2 (four way tie)
6. The Incredible Hulk
7. Superman Returns
8. Hellboy
9. Daredevil (the only film here which is not very good.)
Re: Rank these comic films
Originally posted by Accel
Rank 'em from best to relative worstDark Knight
Batman Begins
Spider-Man 2
Superman Returns
Incredible Hulk
Daredevil (Director’s Cut)
X-2
Iron Man
Blade
Hellboy
1) The Dark Knight
2) Batman Begins
3) X2
4) Superman Returns
5) Spider-Man 2
6) Daredevil: Director's Cut
7) Hellboy
8) Iron Man
9) Incredible Hulk
I've never seen Blade. None of those films were bad, exactly. Incredible Hulk was pretty bad, though Edward Norton's great in everything...
Re: Rank these comic films
Originally posted by Accel
Rank 'em from best to relative worstDark Knight
Batman Begins
Spider-Man 2
Superman Returns
Incredible Hulk
Daredevil (Director’s Cut)
X-2
Iron Man
Blade
Hellboy
1- Hellboy
2- X-2
3- Dark Knight
4- Spiderman 2
5- Incredible Hulk
6- Iron Man
7- Batman Begins
8- Superman Returns
9- Daredevil
10- Blade
Originally posted by roughrider
I didn't see Blade, and have only seen the theatrical cut of Daredevil(and that's at the bottom of this list.)
The Director's Cut didn't have most of the problems the Theater version had, so it came out very well, which is why I decided to put it here on this list.
On another note, I'm surprised every one's ranking The Dark Knight over Batman Begins. I thought BB was a much better Batman film mainly due to much better acting on Bale's part and better fight scenes.
Originally posted by Accel
I would definitely recommend seeing the director's cut of Daredevil. The main problem with the theatrical version was that it cut out a court case that proved vital to the storyline and changed some scenes around.The Director's Cut didn't have most of the problems the Theater version had, so it came out very well, which is why I decided to put it here on this list.
On another note, I'm surprised every one's ranking The Dark Knight over Batman Begins. I thought BB was a much better Batman film mainly due to much better acting on Bale's part and better fight scenes.
I heard some good word about the Special DVD version of Daredevil; just haven't gotten around to it yet. Mark Steven Johnson's next film - Ghost Rider - was even worse, so I've been soured on him as a filmmaker. It's good news that Sam Mendes has rescued 'Preacher' from his hack, mediocre hands.
Your opinion of Batman Begins over The Dark Knight, is the opposite of the large majority of fans & media, who believe TDK has much better action sequences. I agree, but still give high marks to BB - it's not all about action; character matters even more.
The problem with TDK’s actions scenes as opposed to BB was that they portrayed Batman as being far too human. In Begins, you get to see Batman’s endless hours of honing his skills that allows him to take about just about any one. The fast fight scenes were appropriate for some one to have as much training as him, but a lot of viewers wanted those fights to be turned down a notch.
Enter The Dark Knight and all of a sudden Bruce is having trouble in H2H with the Joker and dogs, he isn’t taking out random thugs as easily as he should be, and his fights were slowed down significantly. It’s like a good chunk of the training he received in Begins was lost and he ends up coming off as too human to be Batman.
Regarding character, in Begins, Bale’s acting was much better done and he made easier for the audience to connect to Bruce Wayne. In TDK, he just seemed to be going with the flow and was out-acted by Oldman, Eckhart, and especially Ledger.
That doesn’t sit well with me when a film has to be carried by its supporting actors more so than the lead role.
Re: Rank these comic films
Originally posted by Accel
Rank 'em from best to relative worstDark Knight
Batman Begins
Spider-Man 2
Superman Returns
Incredible Hulk
Daredevil (Director’s Cut)
X-2
Iron Man
Blade
Hellboy
Pretty Good topic.
1. Dark Knight
2. Spider-man 2
3. Iron Man
4. Batman Begins
5/6 X2 (tie)
5/6. Superman Returns (tie)
7. Incredible Hulk
8. Blade
9. Daredevil
10. Hellboy
I'm surprised there are people here that didn't think Hellboy was complete crap.
Originally posted by Accel
The problem with TDK’s actions scenes as opposed to BB was that they portrayed Batman as being far too human. In Begins, you get to see Batman’s endless hours of honing his skills that allows him to take about just about any one. The fast fight scenes were appropriate for some one to have as much training as him, but a lot of viewers wanted those fights to be turned down a notch.Enter The Dark Knight and all of a sudden Bruce is having trouble in H2H with the Joker and dogs, he isn’t taking out random thugs as easily as he should be, and his fights were slowed down significantly. It’s like a good chunk of the training he received in Begins was lost and he ends up coming off as too human to be Batman.
Regarding character, in Begins, Bale’s acting was much better done and he made easier for the audience to connect to Bruce Wayne. In TDK, he just seemed to be going with the flow and was out-acted by Oldman, Eckhart, and especially Ledger.
That doesn’t sit well with me when a film has to be carried by its supporting actors more so than the lead role.
To ask such questions about Batman vs. Joker, you may as well ask why he has such trouble with him in the comics as well. Ras Al Ghul may fight Batman straight up & honourably, but Joker is dangerous in his unpredictability & forcing Batman to react to changes in the environment around him. In the film he throws everything from his henchmen to vicious dogs to construction materials at him while he improvises ways to alter the situation to his liking; even trapped in a jail cell, he's still controlling things and forcing Batman to play the game he wants. I thought the film was reflecting what makes him so dangerous; Batman himself says it's almost impossible to predict what the Joker is doing at a given time.
As far as comparing Bale's work to Ledger, Oldman & Eckhart's, I'll say it again: he's playing a character who is deeply repressed & controlling. The other actors had the freedom to emote heavily because of their characters & what happens to them. Batman can't have what's typically referred to as an 'Oscar scene', yelling or doing something heavily emotional. The only time we saw that was in the interrogation room scene, where he nearly went berserk with anger knowing Rachel was in danger, with Joker laughing at his inability to intimidate him.
Originally posted by roughrider
To ask such questions about Batman vs. Joker, you may as well ask why he has such trouble with him in the comics as well. Ras Al Ghul may fight Batman straight up & honourably, but Joker is dangerous in his unpredictability & forcing Batman to react to changes in the environment around him. In the film he throws everything from his henchmen to vicious dogs to construction materials at him while he improvises ways to alter the situation to his liking; even trapped in a jail cell, he's still controlling things and forcing Batman to play the game he wants. I thought the film was reflecting what makes him so dangerous; Batman himself says it's almost impossible to predict what the Joker is doing at a given time.
This had nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Originally posted by roughrider
As far as comparing Bale's work to Ledger, Oldman & Eckhart's, I'll say it again: he's playing a character who is deeply repressed & controlling. The other actors had the freedom to emote heavily because of their characters & what happens to them. Batman can't have what's typically referred to as an 'Oscar scene', yelling or doing something heavily emotional. The only time we saw that was in the interrogation room scene, where he nearly went berserk with anger knowing Rachel was in danger, with Joker laughing at his inability to intimidate him.
And it's not like Batman's an impossible character to render correctly. Just look as Tim Burton's first two Batman films. Michael Keaton portrays the character flawlessly.
Originally posted by Accel
Okay... what?This had nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Which didn't stop him from portraying the exact same character just fine the first time.
And it's not like Batman's an impossible character to render correctly. Just look as Tim Burton's first two Batman films. Michael Keaton portrays the character flawlessly.
How does my earlier response have nothing to do with what you're talking about?
You complain about Batman showing less skills against the Joker than he would normally have. I point out the reasons why that is, and how they are reflecting how things go between them on the comics page, which is never just one punch and Joker is in custody.
And you forget the bravura sequences that show Bruce's great skills: the perfectly timed break-in and snatching of Lau out of Hong Kong, then the climatic sequence in the construction building, where he takes out virtually all the henchmen, fights off the incoming SWAT team, and saves the hostages on multiple floors all within a few minutes. The former shows perfect prep; the latter shows great ability to improvise on the fly.
Having a little more trouble with some thugs? He does something outside his normal M.O. by storming into a nightclub filled with a hundred people, to interrogate Maroni. He still gets by his bodyguards in the tight space. But it goes back to what was said at the end of BB, about adaption & escalation. Maroni & his cronies start the practice of staying in public places and watching where they go at night to avoid Batman. His encounter with the killer dogs is part of that too, as he finds his suit not resistant enough against them, so he adapts to a new suit. We see such things in the comics; he use to not have safety measures if he was knocked unconscious while on patrol. Now, his suit has defenses.
As far as Michael Keaton, I was glad at the time that they didn't screw up the character. But the perception of being outshone by the villains was twice as great in the Burton films - there was a joke at the time that the film may as well been called 'Joker' due to Jack Nicholson's dominance on screen. Keaton/Burton's take was closer to Phantom Of The Opera, he stayed so much in the background. And, he had no evolution from the first film to the second, unlike Bale. Bruce Wayne is an angry young man finally finding an outlet for his rage in BB (Alfred worries about him getting lost inside his 'monster'😉; by the second film he's starting to have doubt if he's helping the city or just escalating the problems in Gotham. A journey is much more evident in the Nolan films.
You're right, that Batman is not an impossible character to portray. I'm seeing the best version of him right now in Christian Bale.