Ok Clearly people here have different conceptions of the definition of a leader.
I'll go into somewhat political territory and say that in today's civilized world, the connotation of "leader" DOES NOT mean autocrat, despot, or military commander.
The connotation of "leader" in a civilized context is one who is choosen through some system of popular majority to direct and decided affairs of state. For monarchies, it is in the context of a hereditary line of competent individuals, whose subjects give implicit approval by not overthrowing the ruling monarchy, and whose peers in other forms of government have good relations.
If you are asking "who is the better leader" then by default you are referring to the civilized view of the term "leader"
Doom is an autocrat and a despot. His nation is secure, yes, but he rules through fear. He is egomaniacal and his goals and objectives are mutually exclusive of nearly every other single individual in the MU. That means he will always have more enemies than allies, always.
Unwilling to share power, believes in no ideal or concept save for his own personal advancement....these are the tell-tale signs of an absolute dictator.
Those who say Doom is a better leader do so from an absolute ruler context. As someone wisely said, Doom does not inspire.
Magneto has an ideal and a belief for which he would do almost anything. He has inspired countless people, and while the ends are not successful, he's demonstrated capability to inspire, adapt, and even temporarily alter his views (being head of xavier's school).
If you want an authoritarian system, one entirely built on despotism and absolute rule to achieve remarkable things, Doom is the choice.
If you want a selectively homogenous, community-dependent system, one built entirely on a belief and ideal to strive for remarkable things, Magneto is the choice.
One last thing. You can't compare Latveria to Genosha. Latveria is one human country out of more than 300 on the planet, and is only one despotism of many.
Genosha is (or was) the focal point of an entire race. You cannot compare one human country out of hundreds to the first and only mutant nation in existence. The dynamics are the NOT the same, the inherent political relations and stability, populations and demographics are as wide and different between Latveria and Genosha as Earth is from Pluto.
Lastly, if Doom died, what would happen to Latveria?
If Magneto trully died, what would happen to Genosha?
Originally posted by TenebrousMagneto is a wannabe Doom is a true King .
Ok Clearly people here have different conceptions of the definition of a leader.I'll go into somewhat political territory and say that in today's civilized world, the connotation of "leader" DOES NOT mean autocrat, despot, or military commander.
The connotation of "leader" in a civilized context is one who is choosen through some system of popular majority to direct and decided affairs of state. For monarchies, it is in the context of a hereditary line of competent individuals, whose subjects give implicit approval by not overthrowing the ruling monarchy, and whose peers in other forms of government have good relations.
If you are asking "who is the better leader" then by default you are referring to the civilized view of the term "leader"
Doom is an autocrat and a despot. His nation is secure, yes, but he rules through fear. He is egomaniacal and his goals and objectives are mutually exclusive of nearly every other single individual in the MU. That means he will always have more enemies than allies, always.
Unwilling to share power, believes in no ideal or concept save for his own personal advancement....these are the tell-tale signs of an absolute dictator.Those who say Doom is a better leader do so from an absolute ruler context. As someone wisely said, Doom does not inspire.
Magneto has an ideal and a belief for which he would do almost anything. He has inspired countless people, and while the ends are not successful, he's demonstrated capability to inspire, adapt, and even temporarily alter his views (being head of xavier's school).
If you want an authoritarian system, one entirely built on despotism and absolute rule to achieve remarkable things, Doom is the choice.
If you want a selectively homogenous, community-dependent system, one built entirely on a belief and ideal to strive for remarkable things, Magneto is the choice.
One last thing. You can't compare Latveria to Genosha. Latveria is one human country out of more than 300 on the planet, and is only one despotism of many.
Genosha is (or was) the focal point of an entire race. You cannot compare one human country out of hundreds to the first and only mutant nation in existence. The dynamics are the NOT the same, the inherent political relations and stability, populations and demographics are as wide and different between Latveria and Genosha as Earth is from Pluto.
Lastly, if Doom died, what would happen to Latveria?
If Magneto trully died, what would happen to Genosha?
Magneto will only do well until he actually achieves his goal then he will fail as always.
Doom is a true King you might not like him you might not agree with him but if you where his subject you would never think to overthrow him because you know that is is the law and for all his faults he is the best leader.
Being an inspiring rebel leader and being a King a re two completly different things.
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.
Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.
if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance.
Originally posted by janus77Agreed Magneto it a good inspiring rebel leader. Doom is a King
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.
if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance.
Originally posted by janus77
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.
if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance.
Hmm but I think Tenebrous made the good point that ruling a nation that is the focal point of the whole race is different from just ruling a country....
Originally posted by psycho gundamDoom has to lose because of his ego, otherwise he wouldn't.
magneto for the win.doom's ego gets the better of him always, his most embarrassing defeats are always symptoms of his ego.
magneto inspires his followers by telling them to raise their head's high and fight back.
The thing is, Doom and BlackPanther to me seem pretty similiar. Both lead what would be 3rd world nations that are only world powers because of odd circumstances. Vibranium and science in this case. BP keeps his country safe and is loved by his people, Doom keeps his country safe and is love/feared depending on whos writing. Is there really that much difference in how they do things? Or is it more of how the writers try to define good guys and bad guys?
Doom can't be a leader for the main fact that he doesn't lead people or like leading people he prefers to do everything himself unless it's grunt work, which he will then delegate. But managing does not equal leadership.
Leaders
Persons with managerial and personal power who can influence others to perform actions beyond those that could be dictated by those persons’ formal (position) authority alone.