mormonism is crazy just like any other relegion. what does make it a little sad{like scientology} is that its advent is recent enough to check the facts of the prophet/creator and the history to see the ridicule, as opposed to blaming ignorance and obscurity like other relegions. progressive mormons tend to seperate their mind between practical and relegious, more traditional mormon are pretty much extremists, reletively peaceful extremist but extremist nonetheless. no offece dadudeman
Originally posted by leonheartmm
mormonism is crazy just like any other relegion. what does make it a little sad{like scientology} is that its advent is recent enough to check the facts of the prophet/creator and the history to see the ridicule, as opposed to blaming ignorance and obscurity like other relegions. progressive mormons tend to seperate their mind between practical and relegious, more traditional mormon are pretty much extremists, reletively peaceful extremist but extremist nonetheless. no offece dadudeman
No offense taken. We're homies. 😄
In the case of Mormonism, the facts can be checked and verified upwards of 90% of the time. What you have to realize is there's a lot of lies spread about Mormonism because the protestants lose money to Mormonism. Keep in mind, the preachers/pastors/etc. earn their money from selling God the best in their churches.
If I were to asses Mormonism with a critical eye, I would say that the Mormons collect more money, per member, than other churches through more intelligent salesmanship than the protestant faiths. This is what I REALLY think is at the heart of all the lies that are consistantly spread about Mormons...even when the vast majority have long since been proven as false in some way.
I would much rather discuss Mormonism with someone like you than, say, an antagonistic (lol...I know..."is there any other kind?"😉 protestant.
My response and your post belong in the Mormon thread instead of here.
The vast majority of that video is false...so I wouldn't take much thought to it. I went through like a minute of the video and had to write a huge post to point out everything wrong with the vid...I didn't feel like doing that for the rest because people can clearly see the point I was making.
^and ive never cared much for relegious propaganda against other relegions. however, i do beleive not all of them are lies, and just like any other relegion which has to exist in progressive societies, mormonism has to pick and choose the more acceptable history while taking out the more unacceptable one. i call it virtouous hypocricy and im glad for it. mormonism and scientology get more bad press than they deserve, only because the wrest of the world has seen more traditional sects be aorund for so long that theyve stopped questioning the sanity of the institutions.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
mormonism is crazy just like any other relegion. what does make it a little sad{like scientology} is that its advent is recent enough to check the facts of the prophet/creator and the history to see the ridicule, as opposed to blaming ignorance and obscurity like other relegions. progressive mormons tend to seperate their mind between practical and relegious, more traditional mormon are pretty much extremists, reletively peaceful extremist but extremist nonetheless. no offece dadudeman
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
completely agree. At first I didn't hold any ill will towards Mormons but if you actually learn about their religion and what they preach and propose not only is it insanely crazy it's so incredibly full of bigotry. Mormon faith believes that black people are bad and if they become good they turn white. racism and any form of bigotry is not cool with me and makes me think much much less of a person or group.
That Mormon view of race was almost universally dropped a long time ago, it's a lot like criticizing science for thinking the Earth is flat.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That Mormon view of race was almost universally dropped a long time ago, it's a lot like criticizing science for thinking the Earth is flat.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Can someone let me know what Mormon's vews on race were?
He's saying that one cannot cherrypick which parts of a religion they want to follow. He claims that there is 'no excuse' for foolish beliefs in a religion that one does not follow (specific beliefs within the religion one does follow being foolish, not the religion itself) although he fails to realize that religion is what people make of it and if ignoring part of it makes it more humane or effective then it is a good thing to ignore it.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He's saying that one cannot cherrypick which parts of a religion they want to follow. He claims that there is 'no excuse' for foolish beliefs in a religion that one does not follow (specific beliefs within the religion one does follow being foolish, not the religion itself) although he fails to realize that religion is what people make of it and if ignoring part of it makes it more humane or effective then it is a good thing to ignore it.
Nearly every single one of those can be directly correlated to religious belief. Also Sym, maybe you should improve your reading comprehension skills before bashing my writing ones. Just a thought.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I feel if you're going to believe in a magical guy who makes people from ribs, or that the world is being held up by a giant turtle on it's back, then you have no right to decide that the parts you don't like aren't real.
That's totally absurd.
Also, you seem to have confirmed my question. Well that you directly oppose the ability to question established beliefs which is rather silly for someone who claims to be rational.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's totally absurd.Also, you seem to have confirmed my question. Well that you directly oppose the ability to question established beliefs which is rather silly for someone who claims to be rational.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Uhm...you just said that I'm opposed to questioning established beliefs? That's what I've been doing....unless you mean I'm against questioning established scientific belief?
You seem to profess the belief that people should hold absolute letter of the belief in their religion and never question it . . . or be atheist. That's absurd, irrational and falls into the 100% fallacy which makes it illogical too. If that isn't what you believe please explain what you do, I'm sure you're trying to be rational but your beliefs as expressed do not seem to be reasonable.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Below is the guideline that mental health doctors use when diagnosing delusional disorder:
The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
The belief is, at the least, unlikely.
The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his psyche.
The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
Individuals who know the patient will observe that his belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.
Often claims to "speak with god"
Which DSM is that from?
I think it bears mentioning that a) much of that applies to plenty of atheists, b) a majority of people cannot (by definition) all have the same abnormality, c) the broadness with which you want to apply this would make most attempts to move forward scientifically "delusional" as they involve having deep conviction and willingness to challenge what is typically believed.
I'm fairly certain that delusion requires a person to continue believing in the face of positive evidence that they are wrong, ie a faith healer thinking he can still heal people after being shown the reasons for all the people he "healed" getting better would be delusional but a person who believes that faith healing is possible would only be delusional if the belief was held in the face of every healer in the world being disproven.
DSM IV diagnostic criteria for delusional disorder:
DSM-IV-TR (APA, 2000) defines delusional disorder with the following criteria:* Criterion A: Nonbizarre delusions (ie, involving situations that occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, infected, loved at distance, or deceived by spouse or lover, or having a disease) of at least 1 month's duration.
* Criterion B: Criterion A for schizophrenia has never been met (ie, patients do not have simultaneous hallucinations, disorganized speech, negative symptoms such as affective flattening, or grossly disorganized behavior). Note: Tactile and olfactory hallucinations may be present in delusional disorder if they are related to the delusional theme.
* Criterion C: Apart from the impact of the delusion(s) or its ramifications, functioning is not markedly impaired, and behavior is not obviously odd or bizarre.
* Criterion D: If mood episodes have occurred concurrently with delusions, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the delusional periods.
* Criterion E: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (eg, a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
* Subtypes are defined, including erotomanic, grandiose, jealous, persecutory, somatic, mixed, and unspecified.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/292991-overview
The ICD describes it as the following:
F22.0 Delusional DisorderThis group of disorders is characterized by the development either of a single delusion or of a set of related delusions which are usually persistent and sometimes lifelong. The delusions are highly variable in content. Often they are persecutory, hypochondriacal, or grandiose, but they may be concerned with litigation or jealousy, or express a conviction that the individual's body is misshapen, or that others think that he or she smells or is homosexual. Other psychopathology is characteristically absent, but depressive symptoms may be present intermittently, and olfactory and tactile hallucinations may develop in some cases. Clear and persistent auditory hallucinations (voices), schizophrenic symptoms such as delusions of control and marked blunting of affect, and definite evidence of brain disease are all incompatible with this diagnosis. However, occasional or transitory auditory hallucinations, particularly in elderly patients, do not rule out this diagnosis, provided that they are not typically schizophrenic and form only a small part of the overall clinical picture. Onset is commonly in middle age but sometimes, particularly in the case of beliefs about having a misshapen body, in early adult life. The content of the delusion, and the timing of its emergence, can often be related to the individual's life situation, e.g. persecutory delusions in members of minorities. Apart form actions and attitudes directly related to the delusion or delusional system, affect, speech, and behaviour are normal.
Diagnostic Guidelines
Delusions constitute the most conspicuous or the only clinical characteristic. They must be present for at least 3 months and be clearly personal rather than subcultural. Depressive symptoms or even a full-blown depressive episode may be present intermittently, provided that the delusion persists at times when there is no disturbance of mood. There must be no evidence of brain disease, no or only occasional auditory hallucinations, and no history of schizophrenic symptoms (delusions of control, thought broadcasting, etc.).
Includes:
* paranoia
* paranoid psychosis
* paranoid state
* paraphrenia (late)
* sensitiver BeziehungswahnExcludes:
* paranoid personality disorder
* psychogenic paranoid psychosis
* paranoid reaction
* paranoid schizophrenia
http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-ps02.html
Remember, something cannot be a mental disorder unless it meets 2 very specific criteria. The first is that the disorder must cause persistent problems for the person living in society. There must be day-to-day issues regarding their delusions that prevent them from living among non-handicapped people. A religious person does not suffer from this, and thus, by any definition of mental illness, they are not delusional.
The second consideration is the fact that a culturally held belief cannot be evidence of delusions. There are thousands of things which are not formally true that all people in all cultures believe. To be born into and indoctrinated into these things does not make one delusional. It is true that cultural beliefs may become delusional, but then they would have to meet either of the above diagnostic criteria, cause persistent problems for the person living in society, and potentially most important:
NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND DIAGNOSED BY A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL