Capitalism VS. Socialism

Originally posted by k1Lla441
Which one do you guys want america to be?

Capitalism is the idea that if people work hard, they get paid a lot, and if people dont work hard( a.k.a bums) they dont get rewarded. Also means that private owners own there own businesses and the government doesnt interfere.

Socialism is the idea that people get equal rights and rewards no matter what. So no matter how much harder you work than the person next to you, youll always get the same pay/rewards. Also means the government will interfere with busnisses.

So which one would you like america to be?( by the way, america is currently capitalism)

You evidently know no differance between communism and socialism (by deffinition).
You also are pretty clueless about what capitalism is.

''Capitalism is about reward for hard work''. Karl Marx is spinning in his grave right now.

Originally posted by KidRock
If its going to be capitalism, let it be capitalism. You cannot pick and choose regulations and still call it a free market or capitalism. One could argue the whole mortgage crisis never would have happened if we were truly capitalist.

edit: And I am a capitalist, I don't believe in rewarding failure.

Current credit crunch happened because of recklessness and greed not because of ''socialism''.

In a socialist society that could indeed not have happened (in fact, worse economic things happen in those), but certain socialist influences in a capitalist society can (and did) advance the current troubles.

I'm curious, what would non-money based capitalism be like?

Once again, I didn't read everything on the thread, but I would say that Capitalism is better.

In socialism, it doesn't matter how hard you work, because you get the same as the dude who does nothing. It that fair? No. Not only do you have no motivation to do anything, but the country won't be successful because no one will try to do anything.

I think its funny how people make the comment "Capitalism rewards hard work" So Paris Hilton Deserves to be a millionaire due to her hard work and the Guy Who has a wife and two kids working 2 jobs to support them with no time to go to college (Which is free in a Socialist state) deserves to live pay check to pay check barley paying the bills and having very little to show for his hard work other than a Roof and a car and debt? Capitalism doesn't reward Hard work. It rewards the 15% of Millionaire corporate Moguls who dangle the brass wring in front of the workers (keeping that dream alive) who labor for pittance to make the Millionaire Billionaires. The 15% can send their kids to college and have jobs ready for them when they get out . This perpetuates the schism between the haves and have nots.

I'm not an economist just and average joe who "WORKS HARD" and isn't seeing much for it. So please if you want to comment don't just call me an idiot, realize that on the surface Capitalism doesn't seem to benefit the"Hard working" class who do what they can to survive, who cant afford insurance, who cant afford to send their children to college.

The fault of any of these ideas of Govnt is "Man" they could all work but humans are greedy, self centred animals ,who rarely do anything to benefit another human being.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
I think its funny how people make the comment "Capitalism rewards hard work" So Paris Hilton Deserves to be a millionaire due to her hard work and the Guy Who has a wife and two kids working 2 jobs to support them with no time to go to college (Which is free in a Socialist state) deserves to live pay check to pay check barley paying the bills and having very little to show for his hard work other than a Roof and a car and debt? Capitalism doesn't reward Hard work. It rewards the 15% of Millionaire corporate Moguls who dangle the brass wring in front of the workers (keeping that dream alive) who labor for pittance to make the Millionaire Billionaires. The 15% can send their kids to college and have jobs ready for them when they get out . This perpetuates the schism between the haves and have nots.

I'm not an economist just and average joe who "WORKS HARD" and isn't seeing much for it. So please if you want to comment don't just call me an idiot, realize that on the surface Capitalism doesn't seem to benefit the"Hard working" class who do what they can to survive, who cant afford insurance, who cant afford to send their children to college.

The fault of any of these ideas of Govnt is "Man" they could all work but humans are greedy, self centred animals ,who rarely do anything to benefit another human being.

Paris Hilton's father provided shelter and food to millions of people. Paris Hilton gets millions to watch her shows and movies, and millions to buy her shitty music. So, yeah, she deserves it, because the dumbasses that works two jobs to provide for their family can't help but spend billions on the shit she provides. Yeah, it's sad, but it's the fault of the many, many idiots who think she is worthwhile. Same with Basketball players and the like. In a socialist system the guy with two jobs wouldn't exist, everyone would get the same and no one would be interested in doing the needed, but shitty jobs.That's why it doesn't work. And yes, I honestly think that people that provide more and better services (as evaluated by the demand of the masses) do deserve the better lives they can afford with it.

Well thank you for such an enlightened response.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Well thank you for such an enlightened response.

aren't you guys confusing socialism for communism?

Doesn't a socialist state require a capitalist economy in the sectors not controlled by government?

Originally posted by inimalist
aren't you guys confusing socialism for communism?

Doesn't a socialist state require a capitalist economy in the sectors not controlled by government?

I think we are discussing socialist states as Lenin or Marx or the DDR would have considered them. I did adress the concept of partly socialist inspired governments.

fair enough, I was a little confused for a second.

Socialism imho is more like Norway or whatever, where capitalism still supports the lion share of the nation's economy, just with more controls.

my bad is all

Originally posted by inimalist
fair enough, I was a little confused for a second.

Socialism imho is more like Norway or whatever, where capitalism still supports the lion share of the nation's economy, just with more controls.

my bad is all

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, different people have different ideas of what the word means. In Germany we call the system not "socialist", but social market economy. It's the mix of Free Market and "necessary" socialist intervention.

totally.

I've heard it described as "democratic socialism" or whatever. I guess it is a far cry from what Lenin was talking about.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Oh no, you misunderstand.

I don't have anything against Iceland, it's just that these problems do not create themselves and I feel bad for the Icelandic people. Apparently this crisis is mostly due to a small number of people who control the banks.

Socialism just means collective ownership, so you can't criticise it because of Lenin.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Socialism just means collective ownership, so you can't criticise it because of Lenin.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Socialism just means collective ownership, so you can't criticise it because of Lenin.

True.
I don't even know why Lenin is mentioned to begin with.
Marx and Engles descriped, defined and were fathers of communist ideology.
Lenin marely studied it.

Marx (although he made u dozens of phrases and words in Das Kaital) clearly defined socialism, communism and caitalism.
Its not open for interpretation.

Then again, peole claimed that dictatorshis were communism, so...people like to interpret shit that is not open to interpretation, or claim its something it blatantly isn't.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
True.
I don't even know why Lenin is mentioned to begin with.
Marx and Engles descriped, defined and were fathers of communist ideology.
Lenin marely studied it.

Marx (although he made u dozens of phrases and words in Das Kaital) clearly defined socialism, communism and caitalism.
Its not open for interpretation.

Then again, peole claimed that dictatorshis were communism, so...people like to interpret shit that is not open to interpretation, or claim its something it blatantly isn't.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Paris Hilton's father provided shelter and food to millions of people.

All they do is starve you from your money just so you can live a normal life.

To put it another way, we have enough houses (and resources to make more) so everyone can have a decent home and lifestyle, real estate agents just get in the way of that.

I'm more in favour of Capitalism...but a certain level of Socialism is needed as well. There should be a healthy mix between the two. One where poor people are given a chance...yet also where high-income earners aren't penalized for, well, making money.

I believe health care is a basic human right, and should be afforded to everyone. But at the same time I dislike how my government spends erroneously on programs that benefit only a few...(while here in Toronto we can't even get our transit system fully funded by the federal government because they're too busy spending money on useless crap.)

The thing I despise the most about the ultra left-wing Socialist attitude is the idea that the more money you make, the more taxes you should pay.

Why?

As if making money a crime...or some form of evil. We all grow up in this country taught and conditioned to believe that we should go to school, study hard, work hard, get a good education...which will lead to a good job. Many of us do that...while many of us don't...but those of us who do it - do everything we're supposed to do - are the ones who get punished for it in the end...while the lazy, weak, and inept of society are the ones who benefit off of the hard work and sacrifices you made to get where you are. Does that sound fair? It's like all of a sudden you're a bad person who should be penalized for doing what you were trained to do all along.

So yeah, Socialism can be pretty retarded.