Superman, Orion, Gladiator and Hal Jordan vs Thor, BRB, Black Adam and Captain Marvel

Originally posted by Enyalus
WWIII BA would still get trashed by Supes.

You get no points for taking out the Doom Patrol, the Teen Titans, a few old men and Power Girl.

Originally posted by Raoul
facepalm

huh?

Also:

DC vs MK has some of the worst voice acting and dialogue i've ever seen from a DC adaptation... using it in any sort of debate is just dumb, imo...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Amen. They completely jacked up Diana's powers and her ending was laughable at best. Boon's favorite superhero is CM, which explains the treatment he got.

With Supes, they just kept looking for an out. By that I mean they knew everyone would say "How could Sonya hurt Superman," so this was their only explanation. It is really a poor one actually. IIRC, they never explicitly state how the magic is messing with Supes powers. It would be one thing if someone cast a spell on him or somehow cut off his connection with the sun, but neither of those things happened.

Personally, I don't see magic as a weakness for Clark. He's just not invulnerable against it. I would also guess that his resistance is less than someone like CM or WW. An opponent who wields magic would have an advantage over one that does not, but that fact in and of itself isn't enough to give them the win against him.

It's kind of similar to Diana's problem. She is invulnerable, yet supposedly her skin can be pierced by sharp objects. Clark is invulnerable, yet magic can affect him.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
Supes is not weak against magic. He just isn't invulnerable either. A bullet will bounce off his chest, a magic bullet will pierce it.

When magic enters the equation, Supes is in the same boat as people like Wonder Woman. A bullet will hurt her, but she is durable enougth to take blunt trauma.

A magic bullet or a magic blade can pierce his skin, but he is still durable enought to take magically backed blunt trauma. If he wasn't, the first time CM or BA ever punched him, his head would have exploded.

So, does magic present a unique problem to Supes, yes. But it is not a weakness like "oh crap magic is here, my heart just stopped"

Oh, and for Quan, the training with Zatanna was in the Camelot Falls story. I don't know the issue number, but the trade is out.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
[B]Supes is not weak against magic. He just isn't invulnerable either. A bullet will bounce off his chest, a magic bullet will pierce it.

When magic enters the equation, Supes is in the same boat as people like Wonder Woman. A bullet will hurt her, but she is durable enough to take blunt trauma.

Especially in your Superman/WW bullet durability example

perhaps your trying to say magic weakness is quite minor and wouldn't be major factor when he is battle against magical/mystical users.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Was this before the Atlas battle?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have used the game,current Supes,and kc Supes. What else must I do to prove he is a little weaker against magic?

read that again. go on.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
Supes is not weak against magic. He just isn't invulnerable either. A bullet will bounce off his chest, a magic bullet will pierce it.

I seem to have confused some folks with this statement. When I think "weakness", I think k-nite or red sun. In that sense magic is not a weakness. When Supes is around magic he doesn't lose his powers and pass out or something. That's what I was trying to say.

I just get tired of people thinking that magic means instant win against Supes. If Supes punches Thor, it's gonna hurt Thor. If Thor punches Supes, it's gonna hurt Supes; not because his hand is magic, but just because Thor is strong enough to hurt Supes.

Hmm.. I do enjoy this thread but I have to say something maybe it might help you guys out.

Example:
Say if you have energy based laser gun, manmade scientific weapons. Not magical in anyway.

No you have a wand which is magically embued to shoot out blast or magical energy.

You run tests on both. They both Are just as hot, accurate, deep penetrating. Causes the same exact damage, Causes the same exact result to all materials you shoot just the creation of said projectile. One being of mechanical and scientific created and another being magically created.

Then you take the 2 items and test it on Superman. Shoot the gun at superman probable won't hurt him since it just the run of the mill laser gun. But if you shoot the magical wand he should feel it more than the laser gun.

I personally think depending on how great the magical user is will dictate how much it will effect supes. If the magical aint that great It shouldn't Supes all that much. His standard resistance to things just isnt the same in the magical arena, hence making it a weakness.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
I seem to have confused some folks with this statement. When I think "weakness", I think k-nite or red sun. In that sense magic is not a weakness. When Supes is around magic he doesn't lose his powers and pass out or something. That's what I was trying to say.

I just get tired of people thinking that magic means instant win against Supes. If Supes punches Thor, it's gonna hurt Thor. If Thor punches Supes, it's gonna hurt Supes; not because his hand is magic, but just because Thor is strong enough to hurt Supes.

Agreed

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Hmm.. I do enjoy this thread but I have to say something maybe it might help you guys out.

Example:
Say if you have energy based laser gun, manmade scientific weapons. Not magical in anyway.

No you have a wand which is magically embued to shoot out blast or magical energy.

You run tests on both. They both Are just as hot, accurate, deep penetrating. Causes the same exact damage, Causes the same exact result to all materials you shoot just the creation of said projectile. One being of mechanical and scientific created and another being magically created.

Then you take the 2 items and test it on Superman. Shoot the gun at superman probable won't hurt him since it just the run of the mill laser gun. But if you shoot the magical wand he should feel it more than the laser gun.

I personally think depending on how great the magical user is will dictate how much it will effect supes. If the magical aint that great It shouldn't Supes all that much. His standard resistance to things just isnt the same in the magical arena, hence making it a weakness.

I see where you're going with this. But do you agree that Supes' durability does help against blunt force?

Well hmmm... so if it''s a bat. It won't do jack to Supes. If the bat was of magical origin or material I would see it hurting supes (assuming that if was a really powerful magical bat) I think the nature of any attack if magical based would be more effective if not magical based (given the same amount power or force behind it).

You might be alluding to say a dude who has magical properties like Thor. This is where it can be tricky. I assume Thor has greater strength of that of a normal Asgardian because some magic powers him like BA or CM. BUt I am unsure if using magic that is amping one's physical attributes would mean that that physical aspect is not magical itself.

So like if I use steroids and worked out and got stronger and punched supes it still won't have any effect. The question is if someone gave me a spell and i became stronger (lets say to a point equal to what the steroids got me) I do not know if that would technically mean that I turned into a magical being hence every aspect of my being is magical meaning I should be able to hurt Supes. (of course me using steriods or using magic to simulate steroid piower aint gonna hurt supes this is just an example) Or waht... hmm thats a interesting topic to debate..

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
I seem to have confused some folks with this statement. When I think "weakness", I think k-nite or red sun. In that sense magic is not a weakness. When Supes is around magic he doesn't lose his powers and pass out or something. That's what I was trying to say.

I just get tired of people thinking that magic means instant win against Supes. If Supes punches Thor, it's gonna hurt Thor. If Thor punches Supes, it's gonna hurt Supes; not because his hand is magic, but just because Thor is strong enough to hurt Supes.

Originally posted by Raoul
read that again. go on.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Huh?

you can't use kingdom come. or a game. neither are canon. its even against forum rules, iirc.

and the atlas fight had special circumstances. i posted the scan myself.

I don’t to derail this thread but magic will always be a minor weakness to Superman no matter how you look it.

Superman has dealt with it before and will deal with it again in the future but writers have been persistent on bringing the same b@llshit over and over again. Does that mean Thor; Black Adam etc will beat him? NO

Even after the upgrade people are talking about superman has still shown weakness to magic

Per phase weakness is not a good word but it does have an affect however minor it might be.

and back to topic Team One wins

Here Superman's Magic upgrades

PS upgrade

- The Phantom Stranger save a gift to superman- Shield against Magical attacks. This was given to him when he went to the future and saw himself dead<in a possible future>

---------------------------------------------------------------
Zattana teaching Superman about Magic

-------------------------------------------------------
here uses that knowledge to overcome magic

Originally posted by Raoul
you can't use kingdom come. or a game. neither are canon. its even against forum rules, iirc.

and the atlas fight had special circumstances. i posted the scan myself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Im saying all go with my stance. Im not using those as my only proof. The fact of the matter is he still had toruble with magic and needed a spell to get the win over Atlas.

it didn't explain what was going on, only that the sun wasn't giving him his usual power...

Originally posted by Raoul
it didn't explain what was going on, only that the sun wasn't giving him his usual power...

Everyone here keeps talking about Supes magical weakness they do not have to exploit that to beat Supes. If Supes hits Thor, BRB, BA, or CM they are gonna feel it and they can do the same to Supes with pure strength no magical attack at all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok,the point is he needed aid to overcome this. Good thing the man of magic was around.

yeah, cos there's something so magical about a purple ray firing satellite.

just because superman isn't immune to magic does not mean he's epecially weak against it...

that's like saying i'm more vulnerable to bullets than you are...