Gears of War 2 vs Halo 3

Started by Nactous7 pages

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What underying tones? I know Halo's story, there are no "underlying" tones that make it complex or intricate. Even reading your OWN version, there are no underlying themes. Well, there are no themes that move it away from remaining a generic hero story.

Complexity isn't a matter of opinion, really. You can't choose how intricate something is. If there's a really gigantic maze with a million twists and turns, and one that really isn't that hard to traverse, you can't sit there and choose which one is more complex.

I think you are confusing underlying themes with what YOU saw in the story PERSONALLY, and you're wrong to do so. You did it a while ago with Halo's ad campaign. That isn't an intricate or deep quote, but you claimed it was because you decided to over-interpret it, like you're doing with Halo's generic story.

If the Sera story is true, then THAT is an underlying theme, because it isn't subjective. That theme is there, fact. The things you claim are "Underlying themes" in Halo, are really just you interpreting very simple things.

-AC

Corrupt Religion was one I mentioned.

And yes complexity is a point of view, its all about perception.

Originally posted by Nactous
Corrupt Religion was one I mentioned.

And yes complexity is a point of view, its all about perception.

So? That doesn't make the story complicated, intricate or less generic, especially considering the ending.

No, it's not "all about" perception. Some things are just not complicated, that's a fact, and some are.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So? That doesn't make the story complicated, intricate or less generic, especially considering the ending.

No, it's not "all about" perception. Some things are just not complicated, that's a fact, and some are.

-AC

No there not, see that's what sparked this whole debate in the beginning. Was opinion/point of view offered up as fact. You said Halo's story was shit, point is, its all based of opinion and the individuals opinion. And the simple fact of the matter is, to each his own..... ironicly based of his/her own perseption.

Originally posted by Nactous
No there not, see that's what sparked this whole debate in the beginning. Was opinion/point of view offered up as fact. You said Halo's story was shit, point is, its all based of opinion and the individuals opinion. And the simple fact of the matter is, to each his own..... ironicly based of his/her own perseption.

...I seriously wonder about people. It can't be just me. Yes, some things are factually more complicated than others. What are you talking about?

You're saying that NOTHING is complicated OR easy, it's all down to the person? NOTHING at all?

Look, Halo's story being shit is my opinion. It being simple is not, and I'm not saying it's shit because it's simple.

What about that is honestly confusing you?

-AC

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Say there is one thing that always bugs me about calling the Locust aliens...They come from within Earth? Doesn't that mean they are more earthlings than us? Dunno if anyone catches my drift.

Well if a person from another country is an alien, then so can a being of a different race that comes from underground... besides it's not earth, it's sera.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...I seriously wonder about people. It can't be just me. Yes, some things are factually more complicated than others. What are you talking about?

You're saying that NOTHING is complicated OR easy, it's all down to the person? NOTHING at all?

Look, Halo's story being shit is my opinion. It being simple is not, and I'm not saying it's shit because it's simple.

What about that is honestly confusing you?

-AC

The simple thing is to someone, a task could seem difficult and complicated, where to the next it could be simple. Its all about the perception... And yes, it being simple is still your opinion.

Theres nothing confusing me at all, I unlike you do not set the "bar" at my expectations and mine alone.

Originally posted by Nactous
The simple thing is to someone, a task could seem difficult and complicated, where to the next it could be simple. Its all about the perception...

That is only applicable in SOME cases, not all. Like, playing guitar or swimming.

Halo's plot and premise is a simple one, you are over-elaborating it based on your emotional investment.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Halo's plot and premise is a simple one-AC

That can be more complicated if you take every aspect into consideration, its all about perception and how you look at it.

Originally posted by Nactous
That can be more complicated if you take every aspect into consideration, its all about perception and how you look at it.

Ahh, so you are genuinely not capable of getting it, then. You're not just ignorant.

PERCEPTION is what's making it complicated to you, exactly. You are confusing "I got all this stuff out of it.", with "It's a complicated story.". It's not, you just got a lot out of it. It's a simple story that happened to click with you, and therefore you got a lot out of it.

If you can't accept that, then it's obviously you're a fanboy who gets his kicks from insisting he likes something "complex".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ahh, so you are genuinely not capable of getting it, then. You're not just ignorant.

PERCEPTION is what's making it complicated to you, exactly. You are confusing "I got all this stuff out of it.", with "It's a complicated story.". It's not, you just got a lot out of it. It's a simple story that happened to click with you, and therefore you got a lot out of it.

If you can't accept that, then it's obviously you're a fanboy who gets his kicks from insisting he likes something "complex".

-AC

I see your still trying to force you opinion on people, well.....
Why don't you give me an example of a game that is complex then....

There aren't many, if any truly "complex" games, in terms of plot.

Half-Life, System Shock 2, Deus Ex etc all have a lot more to their stories, development and themes-wise, than Halo does. Much, much more. There are themes, points and ideas in those games that you can actually sit down and legitimately discuss, they're already there. They don't require subjective bias to over-elaborate.

The things YOU get out of Halo, those are just because you elaborate too much to make the game seem better than it is.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
. Much, much more.

-AC


I wouldnt call Half-Life complicated, granted I think its a way better story then Halo, but I wouldnt call it complicated. Well,if you have more name them please...

Besides, I have never said Halo's a great game, or that its one of the best ever made. Its sequel is one of my least favorite games Ive ever played. All I have said was that its story is better then Gears. That hardley makes me a "FanBoy"

Yeah, and you still don't see the problem.

You feeling that Halo's story is subjectively better because you ENJOYED it more, is fine. You're not, though. You're trying to claim that Halo has a complex story, and it doesn't. You're claiming complexity based on something that THEY didn't put there, but something YOU got out of it YOURSELF. That's why your argument is failing.

As for examples, I named three good ones. Why, would four somehow convince you? What's the point? You asked for examples on what makes are some complex games, to me, and I gave you examples.

The point of this is because I am proving Halo isn't complex, when compared with games that are actually complex, and you're cockily asking for examples. Here is what I have on Deus Ex, because it's easier:

"Deus Ex takes place in a dystopian future in a world that draws heavily upon present day conspiracy theories. This dark setting is enhanced by the fact that the entire game takes place at night, a backdrop which adds to the atmosphere of conspiracies and stealth. The game contradicts itself in several instances regarding the exact year in which the events of the story take place, but information in the sequel Deus Ex: Invisible War reconciles this inconsistency via retroactive continuity, placing the events of Deus Ex in the year 2052. Most of the game takes place in fictionalized versions of real-world locations, including New York City, Hong Kong, Paris, Vandenberg Air Force Base, and Area 51.

The plot of Deus Ex depicts a society on a slow spiral into chaos. A lethal pandemic known as the 'Gray Death' ravages the world's population, especially within the United States, and has no cure. A synthetic vaccine, 'Ambrosia', manufactured by the company VersaLife, nullifies the effects of the virus, but is in critically short supply. Because of its scarcity, Ambrosia is available only to those deemed 'vital to the social order', and finds its way primarily to government officials, military personnel, the rich and influential, scientists and the intellectual elite. With no hope for the common people of the world, riots occur worldwide, and a number of terrorist organizations have formed with the professed intent of assisting the downtrodden, among them the National Secessionist Force of the US and a French group known as Silhouette.

In order to combat these threats to the world order, the United Nations has greatly expanded its governmental influence around the globe. The United Nations Anti-Terrorist Coalition (UNATCO) is formed, with the intent of maintaining peace internationally and combating the world's ever-growing number of terrorist groups. It is headquartered near New York City in a bunker beneath Liberty Island, placed there after a terrorist strike on the Statue of Liberty.

The gameplay of Deus Ex offers many subplots which the player may or may not encounter, depending on their actions within the game. This synopsis concentrates on the game's main plot thread.

Conspiracies are one of the main themes of Deus Ex, and the game draws heavily upon popular real world conspiracy theories for many of its plot elements. These include speculations regarding black helicopters, vaccinations, and FEMA, as well as Area 51, the ECHELON network, Men in Black, cow mutilations, chupacabras (in the form of 'greasels'😉, and Greys. Mysterious groups such as Majestic 12, the Illuminati, the Knights Templar, the Bilderberg Group and the Trilateral Commission also either play a central part in the plot, or are alluded to during the course of the game.

During sections of the game where the New York skyline is visible in the background, the two towers of the World Trade Center are noticeably missing; the real towers were destroyed a year after the game was released. Harvey Smith has explained that due to texture memory limitations, the portion of the skyline with the twin towers exists in the game's data files but had to be left out of the final game, with the other half mirrored in place of it. According to Smith, during the game's development, the developers justified the lack of the towers by stating that terrorists had destroyed the World Trade Center earlier in the game's storyline.".

Here's a quote from the review of the game:

"The title has a great storyline, full of intrigue, back-stabbing, secret agendas, political struggles, and social commentary that is so powerful that it will surely overpower the free time of its players. It doesn't matter what style of game you prefer -- action, RPG, or tactical combat -- since Deus Ex has enough of each of those to please even the most prejudiced user.".

Deus Ex was praised for its nods to classic literature, powerful and adaptive themes in many areas, as said; politics, society, conspiracy theories, genetic engineering, cloning, technology, betrayal, espionage.

Nothing in Halo comes remotely close to being as intricate as that game, and that is a truly layered, complex game.

That is not all interpretation, that's what's factually there, in the game. It's not some biased kid saying "Well I got this out of the ad campaign.". The makers of the game, the writers of the story made sure that all of those elements were there, whether you get them or not. Bungie did not put in what you are getting out, and that is precisely why it's not a complex game, and wouldn't be even if they did, because what you get out of it is simple anyway.

So there you see, Deus Ex, for example, is a complex game. Halo is not, not just by comparison, but in general. I await you replying with, "But I think it is.", totally missing all the factual points and proving yourself to be quite ridiculous.

-AC

How does any of the setting or plot make it more complex?

Precisely my point.

You don't actually understand anything truly complex or layered, hence why you have to like Halo's "pretend" complex plot, that isn't actually complex. Deus Ex is honestly so far beyond you that all you can do is ask how it's complex, or more complex than Halo (Which isn't hard).

Everything I just posted will probably be flying back over your head in about a day, try to catch it then. All of this is because you lack the ability to see that outside of what you subjectively take out, Halo's story is simple.

Fanboyism at its best, but let me ask you this:

Why, in almost every single review that I've read personally, is Halo's story the thing that is criticised the most about the game?

-AC

No, don't be a coward, go ahead and explain it in your own words.

Originally posted by Nactous
No, don't be a coward, go ahead and explain it in your own words.

That's what's funny, I actually laid it out in words that were not my own, and then in my own words, simplified for you (How ironic), and you still managed to not get it.

Here it is again:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Deus Ex was praised for its nods to classic literature, powerful and adaptive themes in many areas, as said; politics, society, conspiracy theories, genetic engineering, cloning, technology, betrayal, espionage.

Nothing in Halo comes remotely close to being as intricate as that game, and that is a truly layered, complex game.

That is not all interpretation, that's what's factually there, in the game. It's not some biased kid saying "Well I got this out of the ad campaign.". The makers of the game, the writers of the story made sure that all of those elements were there, whether you get them or not. Bungie did not put in what you are getting out.

Cowardice is you ignoring the fact that Halo's story isn't complex, and when compared with a game that is actually complex, looks worse.

To simplify it FURTHER; Deus Ex has themes, motifs, ideas and philosophies that were placed into its story by the people WRITING it. They are there regardless of whether anybody likes it or sees it, that's the purpose of the game, to portray and present all those different aspects. It's a very multi-layered game and a very complex, intelligent story.

Halo is not, it's a generic hero story with the odd additional, simple theme. The reasons YOU are claiming that it's a complex story are nothing to do with what the story is, and EVERYTHING to do with how YOU see it.

Regardless of what you get out of Deus Ex, those parts were already there. Halo does not contain what you are personally extracting, as proven with your ability to somehow make a really, really simple ad-campaign line seem like it was a story. That's not THEM, that's not the quote being smart, it's you making it seem better than it is, because you can't admit that it's just very simple.

How much more blunt do you want it? By forcing me to continually dumb shit down, you're proving my point.

-AC

Quick question, was there betrayel in Deus Ex?

Yes, as I've said about five times.

No, betrayal happening in Halo doesn't then make Halo equal to Deus Ex. I could see that trick coming from about a mile away. Betrayal happened in Halo, it wasn't a theme. It just...happened.

Besides, if that's all you can process in your mind, out of everything that has been proven to you to show Halo isn't actually complex, then I give up.

Honestly, Nac.

*Hands you a red ball*

Just go and bounce that in the corner. If you're not going to make the effort to read what I'm saying, or if you can't, then I'm honestly not going to bother with you.

-AC

The Prophets betraying the Elite's was a MASSIVE theme. I promise, for every example your present I can find one from Halo that counters yours.