Elektra vs Blade

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine had no leverage what the hell was he supposed to do?

Ermm stab him in the arms?

Originally posted by jinzin

And he took plenty of damage before that point so I'm not quite sure what the hell you mean.

You seem to be implying that the reason why Wolverine was made helpless by Gorgon was because of the damage he had taken previoulsy.

The damage wasnt enough to severaly weaken his HF.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ermm stab him in the arms?

Katana, longer reach... 😬

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You seem to be implying that the reason why Wolverine was made helpless by Gorgon was because of the damage he had taken previoulsy.

The damage wasnt enough to severaly weaken his HF.

The fact of that matter is that Wolverine took loads of damage in that fight alone which illigitmates Logan going down to one sword stab to the torso... which is illigitimated by having taken place off panel after Wolverine was stated to be worn and breathing methane gas on mass levels anyhow.

Originally posted by jinzin
Katana, longer reach... 😬

Read the comic again if you dont believe me, Wolverine could have slashed him with his claws.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine wasn't helpless until he started getting pounded into a concrete wall...

No he was helpess when he got stabbed through the chest and stated that he couldnt breath, prior to that he was fighting back.

Originally posted by jinzin

And he was stabbed in the throat, that would accumilate much blood loss especially for how long he had been sitting there with agents trying to pry it out.

Hes taken alot worse than that, thats nothing so obvoulsy he was helpess because the sword strike was accurate and well placed.

Originally posted by jinzin

The fact of that matter is that Wolverine took loads of damage in that fight alone which illigitmates Logan going down to one sword stab to the torso...

Hes taken alot worse than that so no it doesnt.

Originally posted by jinzin

which is illigitimated by having taken place off panel after Wolverine was stated to be worn and breathing methane gas on mass levels anyhow.

I dont think he stated he was worn or that the methan gas affected him. Anyway like I said Gorgon said let the tire him out a little, so if the methane gas was for that purpose it didnt do much.

So wait wait wait... You're argument is that Logan's taken a lot worse than being stabbed repeatedily through the torso and even the neck so those should be nothing to him, but, at the same time it's okay for a single well placed sword strike in the torso to take him down?

🤨

He didn't have to since methande gas DOES effect the human frame, and Gorgon IS a telepath.

Originally posted by jinzin
So wait wait wait... You're argument is that Logan's taken a lot worse than being stabbed repeatedily through the torso and even the neck so those should be nothing to him, but, at the same time it's okay for a single well placed sword strike in the torso to take him down?

Gorgon is a martial art expert of the highest caliber, so yeah a well placed strike by him should put him down breifly, at least.

Originally posted by jinzin

He didn't have to since methande gas DOES effect the human frame, and Gorgon IS a telepath.

Not sure what you're talking about but the methane gas didnt do much to Wolverine due to what Gorgon stated.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Gorgon is a martial art expert of the highest caliber, so yeah a well placed strike by him should put him down breifly, at least.

Ah yes, he'll successfully do with one strike what Ogun, Shingen, Silver Samurai and Azrael all failed to do....

So once again, you want to have it both ways.. typical.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not sure what you're talking about but the methane gas didnt do much to Wolverine due to what Gorgon stated.

Originally posted by jinzin
Ah yes, he'll successfully do with one strike what Ogun, Shingen, Silver Samurai and Azrael all failed to do....

So once again, you want to have it both ways.. typical.

Nah not really. Not sure about Ogun but it could definetly be argued that hes better than all those mentioned, comparing Silver Samurai to Gorgon is a joke especially when Gorgon kicked both Wolverine and Elektras butts and SS couldnt even beat a starving Wolverine.

😬

Originally posted by jinzin

Due to what Gorgon stated?
Due to Gorgon's assertion it only lends more credence to the theory that it DID... since I'm pretty sure a few dozen ninja aren't nearly enough to tire Wolverine out enough to drop him with one sword strike.

No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nah not really. Not sure about Ogun but it could definetly be argued that hes better than all those mentioned, comparing Silver Samurai to Gorgon is a joke especially when Gorgon kicked both Wolverine and Elektras butts and SS couldnt even beat a starving Wolverine.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Originally posted by jinzin
The body only has so many vital areas that one can strike and can only be effected to such a degree in those areas.. the higher the skill doesn't dictate higher damage by a weapon like a sword if put into the same place on the human body. For instance... A throat slice from gorgon won't be more effective than a throat slice from some genin ninja.
... what you're arguing is illogical on levels I shouldn't even begin to need to explain.

Its a comic book, the writers dont think about the anatomy in as much detail as you do. Furthermore Gorgon is superhuman martial expert something tells me hes capable of things that you would consider impossible.

Fact of the matter is Wolverine said he couldnt breath and was helpess regardless of wether you like it or not.

Originally posted by jinzin

So he WAS effected. 😐

No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its a comic book, the writers dont think about the anatomy in as much detail as you do. Furthermore Gorgon is superhuman martial expert something tells me hes capable of things that you would consider impossible.

Unless one of those things is to stall, slow down, or incapacitate Wolverine's healing factor on some level then it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fact of the matter is Wolverine said he couldnt breath and was helpess regardless of wether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Originally posted by jinzin

No, the fact of the matter is that happened after taking loads of lethal damage to begin with, and was still standing even after that... and that it discredits the idea of Gorgon downing Wolverine with one strike where we didn't even see what happens next.

As I stated earlier hes taken worse damage than that and hes kept on ticking, considering that gorgon is much better than shingen, azreal and SS it could be argued that he was made helpless due to gorgons skill.

Im only arguing that Gorgon breifly made him helpless.

Originally posted by jinzin

So he WAS effected.

Again.

No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Can you understand the significance of a liitle?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
As I stated earlier hes taken worse damage than that and hes kept on ticking, considering that gorgon is much better than shingen, azreal and SS it could be argued that he was made helpless due to gorgons skill.

Im only arguing that Gorgon breifly made him helpless.

I understand but it's an illogical argument.
Gorgon's strikes to Logan center mass are more effective than these other guys because he might be more skilled? 😬

How does skill effect Wolverine's anatomy or power? It doesn't....

Once again we're forced to this notion of what MIGHT BE happening that 's never stated or even suggested on panel.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again.

No it doesnt, again...if the plan was to use methane gas to weaken Wolverine it only was used to weaken him a [b]little due to the fact Gorgon said let him tire a little.

Can you understand the significance of a liitle? [/B]

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I got the impression that it was just three or four CK's that where melee'ing him.

He pulls one of the rope, grapples with two other agents and punches them both back and then panel pulls back and we see three agents engaged in melee with Blade. I don't think every one he hit was a different SHIELD Agents. Maybe they were... but that seems unlikely to me.

To tell you the truth I dont think the writer thought about it in that much detail but he obvously wanted to show Blade putting up a fight.

For starters when he we see him sending three CKS reeling theres one running up right behind him and then in the next panel that one magically disappears. We could assume that Blade put that one down as well, so that would be something like five CKs (including the one going down the rope)

Obvoulsy all the panels wont show everything but obvoulsy the writer wanted to show Blade take down some CKs before getting stopped not putting down a couple of Cks. 😬

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Being reluctant to use a gun shouldn't have much baring on him getting taken down, I mean his reluctance doesn't impede his strength / speed / skill at all. Also there isn't any real indication of hesitance. Police say "Stop or I'll shoot," before they take the shoot. Giving a warning before he started taking fires isn't that big of a deal, maybe he would have started shooting immediately, who knows, but unfortunately he was taken down the very instant he drew his gun.

Srank do you think the writer of the comicbook intentionally wanted Blade to look like a chump? Dont you think that if a writer wants a character to get taken down hes going to at least make it happen due to CIS and not lack of skill?

If you read the scans again The CK says "Thats the difference between you and us" ie im willing to be more brutal than you are and I wont hesistate. So heres two options what do you think the writer was trying to imply?

A: Ha!Ha! Look Blade cant even take down two SHIELD agents and isnt even fast enought to shoot them. Tune into next months BLADE were Blade gets his arse kicked again!

Or

B: Blade takes down a group of SHIELD agents but isnt willing to use as much brutal force as the CKs and hence got taken down.

Your pick. 😐

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Once again, if I didn't think my interpretation was correct... why would I post it? Hopefully, you think what you are saying is correct, and so does everyone else... but for some reason I'm the exception to rule? You'd like me to post things I don't believe are inaccurate? 😕

You're not the exception to the rule jinzin is worse. Im pikcing on you because I think im starting to get through to you.

Again im trying to point out to you that when you have something negative to say about every Blade feat its not genuis its bias.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

It's a feat that wouldn't even require class one strength but was stated as being class 20.

Heres the thing maybe the logic being used is that the vampire was powerful enough to hold down Spiderman and hence was using his strength to hold down Spiderman when the stake was thrown. Hence it took class 10 force to throw him off....actually thats not bad logic.

Anyway considering he hit a vamp that fast its an accuracy feat even if you dont think its a strength one.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

DD and Elektra don't spar, they fight and when they fight, they don't end up on verge of making out. They also have pretty volatile personalities and believes that don't mesh well together. There is certainly going to be some CIS involved, as with any characters that have a complex history but nearly as much as you'd like and I'm not convinced that DD would be the one to suffer from it the most.

Your missing the point. DD and Elektra arent trying to kill each other or serioulsy injure each other and there is CIS involved therefore its similar to sparring.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Stating that Wolverine hit Dracula first, when Snoop implied otherwise, is me being negative?

🙄

I dunno man I think you're just trying to twist shit around. Snoop probably didnt mention it because it was irrelevant, whats important is that Wolverine lost but you keep focusing on every little thing that you can.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Yeah I can barely sleep, I'm so pissed of about the relevance of my statement!!! 🙄

Snoop made an inaccurate statement where he purposely left facts out to suit his purpose... I corrected him.

Nah, I dont think thats what happened I think you're realising how stupid it was to bring it up and now you're trying to twist what he said around to make him look bad.

Oh yeah you know when Punisher got shot in that Spiderman issue was he wearing his skull insignia?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

lol Seriously?

Well I guess it wasn't very "PC," but that was the entire point of the statement. The rest of the world isn't crazy overly sensitive about race to the point of absurdity where Resident Evil is accused of racism, as America is. Race isn't really a big issue in Canada, I guess we can poke fun at the stupidity of racial stereotypes without someone having a conniption. Is it different in the UK?

You might not be racist but if you dont want people to think you're racist it helps not to make racist jokes.

Please dont bring other Canadians into this something tellls me you cant speak for all of them.

Originally posted by jinzin
I understand but it's an illogical argument.
Gorgon's strikes to Logan center mass are more effective than these other guys because he might be more skilled? 😬

Of course. How the hell do you think Captain America can hurt and stun bricks with his barehands while other fighters cant...Cap is more skillful, its makes absolute sense.

Originally posted by jinzin

How does skill effect Wolverine's anatomy or power? It doesn't....

So how the hell does Caps punches affect other characters with his punches...skill.

Originally posted by jinzin

Once again we're forced to this notion of what MIGHT BE happening that 's never stated or even suggested on panel.

No were not, Wolverine stated in black and white he couldnt breath and it took Gorgon three panels to throw him.

Originally posted by jinzin

So he WAS effected.

😬 ....the point im making is that if his HF was only affected a little then if it was 100% it wouldnt have made a difference when Gorgon stabbed him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Of course. How the hell do you think Captain America can hurt and stun bricks with his barehands while other fighters cant...Cap is more skillful, its makes absolute sense.

Cap hurting bricks doesn't make sense anyway you slice it, you're talking about people with bullet proof skin, people who can take the blunt force trauma of others that have the damage output exeeding cap's by literally thousands of pounds more pressure per square inch. Yet skill somehow reverses their biology?
No, thankfully Marvel doesn't care about that, so us street loving comic readers get to drool over this stuff, and other people can't ignore it because it happens and happens WAY too often.

That's not the case with Wolverine.. It isn't something that you can clearly see the difference between. He takes sword stabs from joe bloes with no effect and keeps coming, he takes sword stabs from established swordsmen and keeps coming... Gorgon, if he did put Wolverine down with one sword stab would be the acception to the rule.

There's no reason to rationalize that Gorgon put Wolverine down in one panel, that Wolverine wasn't effected from his previous engagement with the Dawn of the White Lighters and that, and/or that nothing took place afterwards.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So how the hell does Caps punches affect other characters with his punches...skill.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No were not, Wolverine stated in black and white he couldnt breath and it took Gorgon three panels to throw him.

And once again, in that instance, Gorgon chucked Wolverine pretty immediately after hoisting him from the ground. It's not like Wolverine was stuck up there indefinitely.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
😬 ....the point im making is that if his HF was only affected a little then if it was 100% it wouldnt have made a difference when Gorgon stabbed him.

lol it's funny cause your point doesn't matter. Not one bit.

Okay in my interpretation Wolverine was effected because Methane gas was in the air in mass quantities. The effects that Mathane Gas has on oxygen in any given environment can be lethal. Since it causes a displacement of oxygen in the atmosphere it can cause asphyxiation to the human body. Methane gas> not enough oxygen. Not enough oxygen to run through your system > no ability to use a mass of adrenaline. No adrenaline > Slower healing factor.
The affects of asphyxiation are of course faster acting when one is engaged in excercise since the body needs more oxygen this causes abnormal fatigue which is probably what Gorgon was reffering to when he said he was going to wait for Wolverine to fatigue a little before attacking him. And then there's the added symptoms of muscular incoordination, disturbed respiration, and nausea.

Wolverine was in the middle of a little toxic cloud of the stuff and fighting loads of ninja. Gorgon stated he didn't want to encounter Wolverine until after he had tired a bit.. A little compared to what though?

Whatever it was it was enough to drop Logan to his knees and scream at himself to heal faster.. The guy who had his heart sliced in half just to grab his assailants arm and chop it off was trying to convince himself to heal faster...

In any case we don't know what happens after that and by your logic Gorgon's skill is enough to do the job so it can't really be used to argue for Blades case now can it?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Elektra is blocking machine gun fire with her sai, which has a much smaller surface area then the blade of a katana, while Blade is blocking projectile studs with a sword. How fast do those studs move? Do they move as fast as machine gun fire? Seems unlikely. Also Blade blocked four studs, Elektra blocked (assuming each *ping* sound effect represents one bullet being blocked) eleven bullets.

I don't see how that feat is more impressive than Elektras... even saying it is equally impressive is a huge leap of faith.

Dreadnoughts have superhuman reflexes and speed, those studs fire at rifle speed. Its possible that they travel faster than bullets because rifles are used more for long-range than machine guns.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Those two feats are really comparable. Elektra's is a feat of strength, its impressive because she effortlessly snapped a blade in half in her hands, not because she caught the dagger. Blade's is an example of reflexes and coordination, and viewed in comparison with Elektra's bullet blocking feats - like the one above - as it should be, it isn't very impressive.

Like I said above, its Elektra snapping the blade in half that is what is impressive, not the catching of the dagger. View simple as dagger catching feats, Blade's better... but Elektra catching the dagger isn't why I included it in the respect thread.

I think Blade has snapped a stone sword with one hand.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think Blade has snapped a stone sword with one hand.

Impressive, but a stone blade is easier to break than a metal one because it isn't malleable. Metal bends when subjected to force, stone just breaks.

blade has ripped a vampires head off of its body, pretty sure that takes more strength than snapping a blade.

Originally posted by Trackz
blade has ripped a vampires head off of its body, pretty sure that takes more strength than snapping a blade.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's not impressive until Elektra, Logan, DareDevil, Nightwing or Captain America has done that.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Blade/Bladeadamantiumodachi2.jpg