So it's December 25th

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Yes It did explain it. Very Clearly. The predating Religions used the three King concept's. Christians adopted it.

You didn't even bother to mention the three kings concept in your post. You just spouted off some more Zeitgeist nonsense and acted like it proved something.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Oh dear.

The fact that that's a story associated with that date, and Christians adopted (or rather plagiarised) the story as well as the date, is enough to say "Jesus is Mithra Attis Horus The Sun."

Saturn you mean. They co-opted a very specific holiday for a very obvious reason, lots of people celebrated it. That holiday probably coincided with the "New Sun" or whatever bullshit you want to talk about intentionally but at that point Christians were playing the religious equivalent of politics. You're inane little conspiracies don't come into play at all.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You didn't even bother to mention the three kings concept in your post. You just spouted off some more Zeitgeist nonsense and acted like it proved something.

.

My post on Abraham being from Babylon and the Stories predating Christendom had nothing to do with Zeitgeist. Further more I stated that The Catholic Church Amalgamated paganism with Christendom in order to pacify the Pagan Populace,again nothing to do with Zeitgeist That I am aware of. Then I went on to explain that Pagan beliefs relied heavily on Astrological concepts Hence the winter solstice comment.
I know you are an intelligent person SC so for you to say That Zeitgeists take on the forming of Religion is nonsense shocks me because it is Fact but ,I know Church History and the correlation with The Roman Church and Paganism is Fact. That being said I did Prove something. Gav admitted that according to scripture The Messiah was not born in the winter, so why celebrate Dec.25 I explained that.
Have you taken the time to research any of the predecessor Religions?

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
My post on Abraham being from Babylon and the Stories predating Christendom had nothing to do with Zeitgeist. Further more I stated that The Catholic Church Amalgamated paganism with Christendom in order to pacify the Pagan Populace,again nothing to do with Zeitgeist That I am aware of. Then I went on to explain that Pagan beliefs relied heavily on Astrological concepts Hence the winter solstice comment.
I know you are an intelligent person SC so for you to say That Zeitgeists take on the forming of Religion is nonsense shocks me because it is Fact but ,I know Church History and the correlation with The Roman Church and Paganism is Fact. That being said I did Prove something. Gav admitted that according to scripture The Messiah was not born in the winter, so why celebrate Dec.25 I explained that.
Have you taken the time to research any of the predecessor Religions?

You've successfully disproved your own claims.

If Christianity ended up with astrological concepts taken from other religions then Christianity cannot be founded on the astrological concepts that it had to stole in the first place. Said concepts are totally unrelated to Christianity itself, they just showed up because they were part of other things it absorbed. The Bible (except Revelation) was written long before Christianity was meaningful enough to co-opt Saturnalia and such for its own use. The three kings are have nothing to do with Saturnalia or the "New Sun" or anything at all, those connections ONLY EXIST AFTER THE FACT.

What? Did you look over what you just posted?

Quoiting SC "If Christianity ended up with astrological concepts taken from other religions then Christianity cannot be founded on the astrological concepts that it had to stole in the first place" ?????

Quoting SC "The Bible (except Revelation) was written long before Christianity was meaningful enough to co-opt Saturnalia and such for its own use" ??????

The Bible was Canonized over centuries. Council of Nicaea and Trent and Every Century The Bishops of the Various Churches would get together and debate what was considered Worthy of Canonization. " The Bible was written long before Christianity" What?

Earliest Manuscripts:
Pentateuch 850 A.D.
Codex Cairensis 895 A.D.
Aleppo Codex 900 A.D.
Tora Finchasiye 1204 A.D.
Bologna Edition of Psalter 1477 A.D.
Soncino edition Old Testament 1488 A.D.
Bromberg Addition 1525 A.D.

Greek Version:
Septuagint 100 B.C.(Old Testament nothing mentioned about the birth date of the Messiah)
Aquila Version 130 A.D.
Symmachus Version 170 A.D.
Theodotions Version 180A.D.

Aramaic Targums:
Targum of Onkelos 200 A.D.
Targum of Jonathan be Uzziel 300 A.D.

Latin Versions:
Itala Version 200 A.D.
Wurzburg Palimpset Codex 450 A.D.
Lyons Codex 650 A.D.
Jeromes Vulgate 390 A.D.

SO what are you talking about?

"

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
What? Did you look over what you just posted?

Quoiting SC "If Christianity ended up with astrological concepts taken from other religions then Christianity cannot be founded on the astrological concepts that it had to stole in the first place" ?????

If I go out to steal red blocks because I don't have any why would you assume that I had red blocks all along?

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Quoting SC "The Bible (except Revelation) was written long before Christianity was meaningful enough to co-opt Saturnalia and such for its own use" ??????

The Bible was Canonized over centuries. Council of Nicaea and Trent and Every Century The Bishops of the Various Churches would get together and debate what was considered Worthy of Canonization. " The Bible was written long before Christianity" What?

Earliest Manuscripts:
Pentateuch 850 A.D.
Codex Cairensis 895 A.D.
Aleppo Codex 900 A.D.
Tora Finchasiye 1204 A.D.
Bologna Edition of Psalter 1477 A.D.
Soncino edition Old Testament 1488 A.D.
Bromberg Addition 1525 A.D.

Greek Version:
Septuagint 100 B.C.(Old Testament nothing mentioned about the birth date of the Messiah)
Aquila Version 130 A.D.
Symmachus Version 170 A.D.
Theodotions Version 180A.D.

Aramaic Targums:
Targum of Onkelos 200 A.D.
Targum of Jonathan be Uzziel 300 A.D.

Latin Versions:
Itala Version 200 A.D.
Wurzburg Palimpset Codex 450 A.D.
Lyons Codex 650 A.D.
Jeromes Vulgate 390 A.D.

SO what are you talking about?
"

If I meant canonized I would have typed out the word "canonized".

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You didn't even bother to mention the three kings concept in your post. You just spouted off some more Zeitgeist nonsense and acted like it proved something.

Saturn you mean. They co-opted a very specific holiday for a very obvious reason, lots of people celebrated it. That holiday probably coincided with the "New Sun" or whatever bullshit you want to talk about intentionally but at that point Christians were playing the religious equivalent of politics. You're inane little conspiracies don't come into play at all.

They adopted the holiday, as well as the story. Are you not following me, or are you deliberately acting stupid? The plagiarised the whole thing to make Jesus look more important or whatever.

It is the origin of the story.

All the stars are moving.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All the stars are moving.

That's what "The Man" wants you to think. You should only believe people who have "done research" and are unpopular with educated people.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All the stars are moving.

In fact, they actually don't, it's just from our perspective.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Ugh, yeah. That's why they align at this date.

In fact, they actually don't, it's just from our perspective.

They are not moving that fast. You are talking about us moving, but on top of that all the stars are moving. The alignment did not exist long ago, and will not exist in the far future. So, regardless of who came up with it and who is now using it, there is no true meaning in the random pattern that stars make in the sky from our point of view. 😄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
They are not moving that fast. You are talking about us moving, but on top of that all the stars are moving. The alignment did not exist long ago, and will not exist in the far future. So, regardless of who came up with it and who is now using it, there is no true meaning in the random pattern that stars make in the sky from our point of view. 😄

I'd be surprised if the alignment is precise.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Or, it existed long ago and doesn't now.

I'd be surprised if the alignment is precise.

Me too. 🙂

Originally posted by lord xyz
Or, it existed long ago and doesn't now.

I'd be surprised if the alignment is precise.

you are too cool for school u r the fonz.. 🙂

love your debating

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If I go out to steal red blocks because I don't have any why would you assume that I had red blocks all along?

If I meant canonized I would have typed out the word "canonized".

No you said THE BIBLE well there was no "Bible" Until it was canonized.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You've successfully disproved your own claims.
.
The Bible (except Revelation) was written long before Christianity was meaningful enough to co-opt Saturnalia and such for its own use. The three kings are have nothing to do with Saturnalia or the "New Sun" or anything at all, those connections ONLY EXIST AFTER THE FACT.

Backing my statement that you said "Bible" and its not after the fact if Abraham was talking about it 2000 years before Christ. Thats the whole point it has been a part of it from the beginning. Taking it from OLDER Mesopotamian lore.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
No you said THE BIBLE well there was no "Bible" Until it was canonized.

The scripture still existed though.

Am I the only one who thinks its more likely that a kid was born and three wise men did visit him- later recounted by the Gospel Writers rather than the writers getting together, studying the texts of ancient religions and incorporating a winter astronomical event into a story that took place in spring/summer time?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
you are too cool for school u r the fonz.. 🙂

love your debating

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The scripture still existed though.

Am I the only one who thinks its more likely that a kid was born and three wise men did visit him- later recounted by the Gospel Writers rather than the writers getting together, studying the texts of ancient religions and incorporating a winter astronomical event into a story that took place in spring/summer time?

Gav, You cant deny the Ecumenical councils nor,Being Catholic yourself, can you deny Jeromes translation the "Vulgate 390 A.D." so yes it is very possible ,and likely probable,that it was put in after the fact.

Oh and scripture existed but only in Greek form ,The Septaugint and that was about 100 B.C. and it was the Torah.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Gav, You cant deny the Ecumenical councils nor,Being Catholic yourself, can you deny Jeromes translation the "Vulgate 390 A.D." so yes it is very possible ,and likely probable,that it was put in after the fact.

For what reason?

and at the meeting surely someone said: "Umm, what about the shepherds and lambs?"

I really dont know Gav, for what reason? You tell me. Your comments about it being a warm climate is scriptural, I cant argue that but, never the less His Birth date was correlated to the "New Sun" rising in the winter Solstice. Maybe it was because it was a very recognizable theme to the Pagans that The Roman Church wanted to convert. Just a Theory.

And there were many "UMM ,what about this" during the councils. This is why The Church broke apart and Orthodox came to be and Catholicism came to be in 1054.