John McClane VS Martin Riggs

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not disregarding it. i'm saying its not that impressive as you're making it to be. several inches long? the glasses were not that big honestly. and again, he got plenty of rest time throughout the movie. heck, when he ran into hans he had already spent hours walking around with enough time to smoke, chat with the cop and what not. Riggs's LW1 was way more impressive because he was tortured at ends, broke out and till the end of the movie he did nothing but run and fight. and NO rest.

maclane had help and got plenty of time in between for most part of it. the only time he RAN was when he had to go and diffuse the park bomb. don't forget that he also got immediate medical attention after that train explosion.......and he would've been KILLED right at the beginning of the movie in Harlem hadn't it been for Zeus. as for blasted 100 feet in the air.....he landed in water 😐
Riggs never got medical attention after his torture scene and still went on to do way more than john did. he also took down more people WITHOUT cover.

torture scene and the parts that followed>>anything john's done in all four combined. he got KO'd by a few kicks from a chick, barely won any of his h2h fights and the most damage he's taken was being shot in the arm. i can't help but laugh everytime you try to refute my points by bringing up that "glass in feet" thing.
emptied a whole clip on>>glass in feet
electrocuted for hours>>glass in feet
tortured and beaten up>>glass in feet
fighting jet li and nearly winning>>getting smacked around by a chick
falling down several stories on planks of wood>>falling a few feet into water
taking out entire squad + chopper with a handgun>>taking out 10 people with C4

LW1 ending says otherwise.
LW2 ending says otherwise.

mac got enough time to rest in DH1. and all the other ones. he's never done as many things in a stretch as Riggs has.

Martin wins without having to get his ass kicked for the entire time and then "hulking up" like Hulk Hogan. also John got lucky more often than not. we saw that in DH1, DH2 and DH4.

Riggs was 37 in LW1, 39 in LW2, 42 in LW3 and 48 in LW4. so i beg to differ on this one. even at 48 and officially "too old for this shite" he was beating up Jet Li.

no, he ALWAYS gets lucky. he had to use the truck to beat a chick.

~Sado

I really don't know how you can say that McClane received sufficient rest in between all of his feats. The first Die Hard occurs almost in real time. He had enough to catch a smoke break yes, but come on man, that was in between running up and down an entire skyscraper and taking out terrorist after terrorist. And those shards of glass, yeah they were fvcking huge.

As for Die Hard 3. With the exception of the last five minutes of the film that entire movie unfolded over the span of several hours. The only medical attention he ever received was some aspirin and a few trivial bandages that offered no kind of support for his injuries. His down time was always interrupted by another call from Jeremy Irons.

I don't really count what happened to him in Harlem because nothing significant happened. That is the only time that Big Sam offered any type of physical assistance to him. As for falling into water after being blasted a hundred feet into the air, that water was nothing more than a puddle. When he feel a few hundred feet onto the cargo ship, there was nothing but steel to break his fall there. After which, he stormed the ship killing nearly all of the terrorists as well as being beat down by a big ass German with a chain that he later strangled to death.

As for John getting lucky, well, maybe but the same can be said for Riggs. There are dozens of situation where he should have died but didnt because he got lucky. You really cannot contribute Johns survivability and endurance to luck because he is ALWAYS observing his surroundings and relying on chance to save his life. It isn't as though he doesnt know what the hell he is doing, he see's that small chance and goes for it. When McClane took out the helicopter with a car, that wasn't luck it was an estimated and well calculated chance. When McClane went slamming through that window from the roof in DH1 that wasn't luck, it was intelligence and balls. When McClane used the wench of that pick up truck to get on the barge in DH3 that wasn't luck, INFACT he got really fvcking unlucky when the wench wire busted. McClane gets no more lucky than Riggs. Constantly getting stuck in the same situation should prove that he is really un god damned lucky and it is only because of his endurance and wits that he is able to get out of the situation alive.

As for Riggs beating the shit out of Jet li. You really need to watch that scene again because other than a couple good punches, Jet li whooped his ass like a sissy cuck boy and was about to kill him before mertaugh saved his life. Oh yeah, and Riggs even points out how his age has affected him after that cop stomps his ass in that boxing match. While Riggs was getting stomped in the boxing ring in his late 40's, McClane was out blowing up fighter jets with trucks.

Again, McClane is ALWAYS taking out special forces soldiers and mercenaries. One more crazy cop with an impressive background will be of no consequence for big john.

I'm rooting for John here but didn't that german guy he strangled actually get shot by the lady? Unless I am thinking of someone else, cause he found out that the gold wasn't on the boat and then he went to the main guy about it saying that he lied to him and the lady and instead of shooting the main guy she shot the german guy thus killing him

no, unless you're talking about someone else. I'm talking about the big ass guy that called john the energizer bunny.

I haven't seen 3 in ages..I just that Targo was killed by Simons woman, I think Targo was the big guy anyways...I even checked on wiki and it says that he was killed by Simon and I know wiki isn't always right but I think it might be in this case since I remember him getting shot...but then there is the chance we are thinking of different people or your talking about DH1 and I have just gotten mixed up somewhere for some reason

Actually, the more i think about it. I don't think John killed him. I think he just beat him down with that chain. for some reason i remember him strangling that dude with the chain. Hmm, i know for certain though that the girl didn't come in and shoot him because McClane didn't get caught until he made it to the captains quarters. but after you mentioned that i remember that she did eventually shoot him. It was after they had gotten off the cargo ship and left John and Zeus to explode.

lets check youtube lol

Yeah thats it! She kills him when they are making an escape

lol yes to youtube

here we go

Xo_CfOLbUrE&feature=related

damn that place has everything lol

Yeah I know lol There was a guy who uploaded the entire Star Wars saga on there and it was there for so long, eventually it was removed and I think he was banned lol Anyways here's part 11 which is where the big german guy gets killed, if you go to about 5 minutes you see the scene in full:

YouTube video

As for Riggs beating the shit out of Jet li. You really need to watch that scene again because other than a couple good punches, Jet li whooped his ass like a sissy cuck boy and was about to kill him before mertaugh saved his life. Oh yeah, and Riggs even points out how his age has affected him after that cop stomps his ass in that boxing match. While Riggs was getting stomped in the boxing ring in his late 40's, McClane was out blowing up fighter jets with trucks.

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado

Originally posted by ragesRemorse

Dude, Mertaugh killed jet li in Lethal Weapon 4 right as Jet Li was about to strangle Riggs to death, plus it was two on one.

Yeah the stab that went right through the stomach with the metal pole on pissed of Jet Li didn't kill him. Plus, Rigs and Jet Li fell in the water and thats when Riggs killed Jet Li.

Yeah the stab that went right through the stomach with the metal pole on pissed of Jet Li didn't kill him. Plus, Rigs and Jet Li fell in the water and thats when Riggs killed Jet Li.

@steverules: love that avatar 🙂

Originally posted by Sado22
the point isn't who won. the point is that Riggs at 48 did better than John ever did in his youth...against a MUCH better opponent. Jet was faster and stronger and younger than he was and he still got him on the ropes. as for what john did........he didn't do ANYTHING that impressive because he was doing it with help and cars. also, just cuz he got lucky at one point doesn't mean that he'll get lucky with Riggs. in fact, luck doesn't count in versus

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado

No, Riggs didn't do well against Jet Li at all, man. He got stomped. Aside from a single counter the only time Riggs got a hit on Jet li was when his back was turned. That entire fight was two on one against Jet Li and Riggs got his ass beat. He didn't not almost win, in fact he almost got choked out. If Mertaugh hadn't impaled Jet Li with a pipe Riggs would have died. That chick you are referring to was a badass well trained soldier who was in her prime.

You musn't have seen the Die Hard movie's in a long time because McClane never had help...,NEVER. The only time he had any kind of assistance was from Zeus in Die Hard 3 but Zues did nothing but slow him down. Zues only assisted McClane when he saved him from the gangsters in Harlem. Otherwise, he was not allowed to have any help. If he was given any assistance, Irons would have blown the bombs. Granted he did have help from the kid in Die Hard 4 but again, that kid did nothing in the way of helping McClane fight enemies.

In Die Hard 2 he was working against the police and military to fight the terrorists. In fact one of the special forces units he dispatched was a Rogue American military unit. I'm sorry dude, but ive never seen Riggs destroy two military units by himself.

In Die Hard one he had no assistance. like the other installments he saved the day by himself. He didn't get any help from the cop he spoke with. He was giving the cop information but he actually had to dodge the FBI from killing him in the end.

As for you saying that he used cars to assist him in these feats but Riggs used vehicles as much if not more than McClane. McClane has never had any type of special Ops training, yet he was able to rid an entire building of mercenaries and take out two highly trained special ops teams.

As for the luck aspect. I was only trying to point out that Riggs gets as lucky as McClane. I wasn't trying to present McClanes luck as an advantage.

How does jumping off a bridge onto a barge have nothing to do with stamina and endurance? Seriously, i would like to know. After running and driving around all day and getting into crashes and surviving explosions he jumps a hundred feet and lands on steel. Have you ever been body checked or fallen out of a tree...,yeah that takes a lot out of you man. He also fell with great force because the weight of Zues was pulling him down to the ground. Any and everything that exudes energy has to do with Stamina and endurance.

Originally posted by Bloinky
Yeah the stab that went right through the stomach with the metal pole on pissed of Jet Li didn't kill him. Plus, Rigs and Jet Li fell in the water and thats when Riggs killed Jet Li.

dude, Jet Li was impaled. I'd give Mertaugh that kill or at least an extreme assist because he would have eventually died from that. McClane never received any type of assists like that. Shit, I'm sure i could hold my breath longer than jet li if he were impaled and we were both underwater. Besides, until that point when Mertaugh impaled Li, Riggs had gotten nothing but a single counter on Li and was about to be choked out. Riggs never had Li on "the ropes"

No, Riggs didn't do well against Jet Li at all, man. He got stomped. Aside from a single counter the only time Riggs got a hit on Jet li was when his back was turned. That entire fight was two on one against Jet Li and Riggs got his ass beat. He didn't not almost win, in fact he almost got choked out. If Mertaugh hadn't impaled Jet Li with a pipe Riggs would have died. That chick you are referring to was a badass well trained soldier who was in her prime.

You musn't have seen the Die Hard movie's in a long time because McClane never had help...,NEVER. The only time he had any kind of assistance was from Zeus in Die Hard 3 but Zues did nothing but slow him down. Zues only assisted McClane when he saved him from the gangsters in Harlem. Otherwise, he was not allowed to have any help. If he was given any assistance, Irons would have blown the bombs. Granted he did have help from the kid in Die Hard 4 but again, that kid did nothing in the way of helping McClane fight enemies.

In Die Hard 2 he was working against the police and military to fight the terrorists. In fact one of the special forces units he dispatched was a Rogue American military unit. I'm sorry dude, but ive never seen Riggs destroy two military units by himself.

In Die Hard one he had no assistance. like the other installments he saved the day by himself. He didn't get any help from the cop he spoke with. He was giving the cop information but he actually had to dodge the FBI from killing him in the end.

As for you saying that he used cars to assist him in these feats but Riggs used vehicles as much if not more than McClane. McClane has never had any type of special Ops training, yet he was able to rid an entire building of mercenaries and take out two highly trained special ops teams.

As for the luck aspect. I was only trying to point out that Riggs gets as lucky as McClane. I wasn't trying to present McClanes luck as an advantage.

How does jumping off a bridge onto a barge have nothing to do with stamina and endurance? Seriously, i would like to know.

After running and driving around all day and getting into crashes and surviving explosions he jumps a hundred feet and lands on steel. Have you ever been body checked or fallen out of a tree...,yeah that takes a lot out of you man.

as opposed to:
-electocution for hours
-general pummelling for hours
-NO medical attention after any of his bumps
-having a whole clip emptied on
-dragged from a highspeed car for 15 blocks
-stabbed in the leg and having it pulled up all the lenght of his thigh
-flogged and tossed to drown
-shoulder dislocated per movie 😂
-he also mentions that he got shot in nam IIRC
-not to mention the regular punches and kicks he's soaked
-more car crashes than John (heck, he went through a building and out)
-another car crash in LW2
-fell from a highrise building into a pool
-fell several stories up and onto a plank
-getting mauled by Jet and still coming at 48

so you see, he's got more endurance than John.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
the point isn't who won. the point is that Riggs at 48 did better than John ever did in his youth...against a MUCH better opponent. Jet was faster and stronger and younger than he was and he still got him on the ropes. as for what john did........he didn't do ANYTHING that impressive because he was doing it with help and cars. also, just cuz he got lucky at one point doesn't mean that he'll get lucky with Riggs. in fact, luck doesn't count in versus threads because its an unreliable thing. basically you're argument is this:
yeah Riggs has more experience and has done better than john in all his h2h scenes throughout the franchise........but John has been lucky in all his fights and hence he'll win.
it doesn't work this way, dude.

Also, you're making it sound like John just about just walked up to the chopper in DH4 and blew it up. in fact, how does that even compare to Riggs in the first place? we are comparing their H2H skills and their endurance. Riggs took on better opponent at 48 and nearly won, john gets smacked around by a chick. that's what we're comparing. on top of that, the chopper bit and jets had NOTHING to do with his stamina or endurance because:
-he was driving in both cases which doesn't require stamina
-he pretty much drove into the chopper in case one and the most we can talk about endurance is that he jumped out of a speeding car. not THAT impressive given that riggs got DRAGGED by one in a highspeed chase for FIFTEEN blocks. the second case, he jumped from a truck and onto a part of the bridge which has nothing to do with his stamina again. or his enduranc.

will address the other bits at another time.

~Sado

And a better shot? Hmm.....Well, in LW1, remember when Riggs shoots a smily face on the target?

but don't forget that John had glass in his feet. that automatically shows what a great shot he is 😄
j/k

haermm

The thing thats being overlooked in DH1 by the pro-riggs folk here when downplaying the "glass in feet thing is, its not about the just the glass, its the massive bloodloss that ensued. Look at how much claret he left trailing behind him after his escape....!! (Why didnt Han's guys follow that trail...?) That'd f*** up anybody's shit.
Try giving like 3 pints of blood and going for a 4 mile jog if you dont believe me.

That bee-otch in in DH..? If she didnt get that truck up her arse, then as tough has she was for a chick, she couldnt have survived another couple of shots from a puncher like McClane. Thats why Heavyweight Male boxers dont fight bantam weight female opponents, cause their frames/bodies couldn't take the punishment.
Even as an older guy he would have f***ed her up on the first decent landed hook to the jaw, regardless of her training.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And Riggs took out a chopper with his Beretta in 2.

Ahhhhh but he failed to do that in LW1 though when the Shadow posse boys did the hit on Hunsaker and later when he could have sniped the chopper pilot in the desert if he was as good as y'all say.

Whereas McClane his killed every single helicopter he has faced.

(Jumbo Jets, Harrier jump jets, Trucks, Trains, Cars:- It makes no difference to McClane. )

And even when the Agents Johnson were trying to shoot him on the roof in DH1, he didnt he to even shoot back as they were blown to pieces along with the roof by Hans' explosives.
Helicopter death surrounds McClane with such efficiency, that he eat Airwolf for breakfast and crap Blue Thunder in the morning.

If fact it was lucky for those reporters in DH2 that he jumped out onto that plane wing....they may have been next.

Even if I had a distant family member who was a chopper pilot and I saw McClane coming?
I'd straight out shit my pants. 😛

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ahhhhh but he failed to do that in LW1 though when the Shadow posse boys did the hit on Hunsaker and later when he could have sniped the chopper pilot in the desert if he was as good as y'all say.

Whereas McClane his killed every single helicopter he has faced.

(Jumbo Jets, Harrier jump jets, Trucks, Trains, Cars:- It makes no difference to McClane. )

And even when the Agents Johnson were trying to shoot him on the roof in DH1, he didnt he to even shoot back as they were blown to pieces along with the roof by Hans' explosives.
Helicopter death surrounds McClane with such efficiency, that he eat Airwolf for breakfast and crap Blue Thunder in the morning.

If fact it was lucky for those reporters in DH2 that he jumped out onto that plane wing....they may have been next.

Even if I had a distant family member who was a chopper pilot and I saw McClane coming?
I'd straight out shit my pants. 😛

Not that it really matters, the whole helicopter thing came about to see who is the better shot, and it has been firmly established that Riggs is a superior shot.