LoTF Luke runs the Gauntlet yet again
LoTF Luke runs the gauntlet, and gets an hour and a half of rest in between every two matches.
Warm Up:
1. AOTC Anakin
2. AOTC Obi-Wan
Regular:
1. TFU Shaak TI
2. ROTS Dracula/Dooku
3. Galen Marek
4. Darth Malak
5. Darth Revan
6. Darth Bane (Orbalisk)
7. Darth Sidious
8. Yoda
9. DE Sidious
Re: LoTF Luke runs the Gauntlet yet again
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias
LoTF Luke runs the gauntlet, and gets an hour and a half of rest in between every two matches.Regular:
1. TFU Shaak TI
2. ROTS Dracula/Dooku
3. Galen Marek
4. Darth Malak
5. Darth Revan
6. Darth Bane (Orbalisk)
7. Darth Sidious
8. Yoda
9. DE Sidious
Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
He clears it.
I don't think so, the last 4 fighters are at the very the leas the caliber as Darth Caedus who was able to injure Luke. We have to keep in mind that he only gets an hour and a half rest after every two fights so he will get that after 2,4,6, and 8. There definitely is the chance that Bane could injure Luke (Though Luke would clear him) and I don't see those wounds being healed in an hour and half. Plus he could get some type of injury from Galen Marek via the force.) Then he has to face Yoda and (ROTS or OT?)Darth Sidious back to back with no rest between them. Due to exhaustion and the affect of (possible) previous injuries, Yoda stands a chance to kill him or the very least hurt him more then Caedus did. If he clears Yoda then I don't see him being able to take DE Sidious after that.
So I think Luke falls at DE Sidious(might clear it a couple of times but imo, not the majority) with the chance of falling at 8 and possibly 7 depending on previous injuries, though I would lean towards 8 or 9.
EDIT:Where do the fights take place?
I say Luke would defeat easily most of them. Bane, Yoda and Sidious are the key players here. But I'll throw in a wild card and say Galen Marek too - although not a superb lightsaber artist, he was an insane fighter and was strongly versed in the Force (ripping the SD on Raxus Prime). Bane can be defeated by decapitation, Yoda through the Force and Lightsaber. The only way I see Luke beating Sidious is with a Lightsaber. I'm not sure if Sidious was that skilled with a Lightsaber, but he was a beast in the Force. Luke would be exhuasted by calling on the Force all the time. But then again, stranger things have happened.
i think it depends on what state of mind look is in for example lotf lumiya injured luke but he wasn't trying to kill her, now when he was going after her just to kill her he did with ease and very quickly.
so if luke is going into this gauntlet with the intention of killing everyone he's up agaisnt right away then he clears this with difficulty.
if he isn't going into the gauntlet with that state of mind then he goes down at either the first sidious, yoda, or DE sids
Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
i think it depends on what state of mind look is in for example lotf lumiya injured luke but he wasn't trying to kill her,
You do recall that, at the end of the duel, he shot her about six times with a blaster, right?
Luke's a Jedi. Short of Yoda's planned regicide in the Senate rotunda, no Jedi wants to kill their opponent; but they are willing to. Luke is absolutely no different.
now when he was going after her just to kill her he did with ease and very quickly.
This statement is misleading.
It was a brief duel, but it wasn't because Skywalker exhibited a skill with a lightsaber that suddenly went miles above and beyond Lumiya's own. He was pissed and held her responsible for Mara's death; Sacrifice notes that he kept coming "like a battering ram" towards the end of the cliff and, at the very end, they were locked in a stalemate, each putting great effort into disarming the other.
The book makes it clear: the duel was brief because Lumiya lost her footing and fell off the cliff. Skywalker didn't take two swings and disarm her with "ubar abilitiy!!!1!"
so if luke is going into this gauntlet with the intention of killing everyone he's up agaisnt right away then he clears this with difficulty.
Possibly. But I doubt it.
if he isn't going into the gauntlet with that state of mind then he goes down at either the first sidious, yoda, or DE sids
The fact of the matter is that Skywalker, while certainly an upper tier combatant, is not the most powerful Force user we've seen in the mythos. Not conclusively. I said I'd be willing to concede that he is the best all around combatant, but that is simply by hairs, if at all. Lumiya kicked his ass once through clever use of the terrain and manipulation; he dueled her to a standstill in Exile; and then he defeated and killed her in Sacrifice. While I am not suggesting that the demented, deranged half-cyborg is Luke's equal, she has displayed ability to keep up and pose a major threat to him even in single combat.
He was also critically injured and threatened by Jacen in combat, despite the fact that he had the element of surprise, the benefit of aggressive, murderous feelings, and that his son interfered on his behalf.
How will he fare against someone like Yoda or Sidious who are both incredibly fast and aggressive fighters? Yoda's small size and agility would make for a considerable challenge; Sidious is even worse: not only is he a more seasoned and experienced Force user than Skywalker (and in terms of destructive capability, his offensive Force powers are well above Skywalker's own), he's also an obscenely intelligent and manipulative person. Remember: the tactics waged by Lumiya and Mara, as Emperor's Hands, came from Sidious himself. The difference is that he has more power than either of them to execute said tactics.
Originally posted by Gideon
The fact of the matter is that Skywalker, while certainly an upper tier combatant, is not the most powerful Force user we've seen in the mythos. Not conclusively.
Urm...what?
Excuse me Gideon. But taking the restrictions necessary for good story-telling and attribute them to Luke in the context of a versus fight is simply stupid. We know, that Luke can willingly melt with the force (or root himself within the force - call it what you want) to an extend that turns him into a force of nature capable of decimating armies on his own (TUF), resisting epic force attacks (DN trilogy) or even create infinite lasting force effects (Black Fleet Trilogy). The amount of force powers Luke wields is unparalled and so are his combat abilities.
BUT
The writers in the SW universe usually don't let him use all of that power. There is a plethora of reasons (ranging from emotional involvement to fear of falling to the Dark Side) that prevent Luke from using "all he could" in his regular confrontations. Yet look at the situations in which he acts free of restrictions. He single-handely wipes out all Yuuzhan Vong forces protecting Shimra while in a state of an unstoppable force and being "not there" individually (neither physical nor psychological).
Caedus being close to him? The same Caedus which Luke did simply put into a force stun to walk away right after that, having decided that Ben would potentially fall to the Dark Side if he had killed his nephew right there?
DE Sidious being close to Luke? The same Sidious that Luke defeated saber-wise and force-wise 30 years in the past, when the only aid he received was Leia "unlocking some unknown resources" in him?
Sorry. We almost never experience Luke using all he can, because that would turn the entire series into a joke. There would be no reason to put any duel into the books when Luke is involved, because there can be only one winner. In fact Luke could just be used as Deus Ex Machina in the TUFesque fashion. To prevent that, he is almost always restricting himself by various means (intentionally, unintentionally) or is confronted with situations where the odds are against him anyways (opponents that prepared battle with him, traps, etc.). Without that, every SW story would end in the same second Luke would decide to solve a problem himself.
Yet if we assume him to be in his "top shape" which would mean "TUF combat feat" + "LotF Force control" I don't see anybody coming even close to stopping him.
Originally posted by Nai
Urm...what?
That's right, you dirty little ****. I said it.
Have you seen Valkyrie, by the way?
S-L-U-T is censored? Are you kiddin' me?
Excuse me Gideon. But taking the restrictions necessary for good story-telling and attribute them to Luke in the context of a versus fight is simply stupid. We know, that Luke can willingly melt with the force (or root himself within the force - call it what you want) to an extend that turns him into a force of nature capable of decimating armies on his own (TUF), resisting epic force attacks (DN trilogy) or even create infinite lasting force effects (Black Fleet Trilogy). The amount of force powers Luke wields is unparalled and so are his combat abilities.
Not really.
Skywalker's feats at the end of the New Jedi Order were dependent upon a Jedi mind meld that he shared with Jaina and Jacen Solo; the Essential Guide to the Force makes it explicitly clear that Jedi mind melds increase the capability and efficiency of all participants beyond normal. To accredit this to solely Skywalker's ability is a falsehood. Likewise, to his Deus Ex Machina moment in the Dark Nest Trilogy, keep in mind that Jacen Solo was able to enter a state of oneness with the Force that, according to the same Essential Guide to the Force, was "the most powerful" on record (the guide being written during the Legacy of the Force series, circa Mara Jade Skywalker's death). Not to mention that Galen Marek was able to do the same thing at devastating consequence. It's hardly unique and, in Jacen's case, a source indicates that he can root himself in the Force to a degree more powerful than Luke.
The writers in the SW universe usually don't let him use all of that power. There is a plethora of reasons (ranging from emotional involvement to fear of falling to the Dark Side) that prevent Luke from using "all he could" in his regular confrontations. Yet look at the situations in which he acts free of restrictions. He single-handely wipes out all Yuuzhan Vong forces protecting Shimra while in a state of an unstoppable force and being "not there" individually (neither physical nor psychological).
As has been pointed out, Skywalker's feats during the assault on Shimrra's citadel were the product of a Jedi mind meld with Jaina and Jacen Solo; Skywalker himself cites it as much in the Essential Guide to the Force.
Caedus being close to him? The same Caedus which Luke did simply put into a force stun to walk away right after that, having decided that Ben would potentially fall to the Dark Side if he had killed his nephew right there?
I didn't say that Caedus was close to him; I said that he managed to hold his own against his vastly more experienced uncle, despite the fact that Skywalker was using aggressive feelings (which we all know adds a tremendous advantage), the element of surprise, and Ben intervening on Skywalker's behalf.
Regarding Skywalker's immobilization of his nephew, to quote the passage: Skywalker may have held him there without visible effort, "but it was also true he took Caedus by surprise." It wasn't as if Caedus had time or inclination to prepare his defenses and Skywalker simply overcame them in raw strength.
DE Sidious being close to Luke? The same Sidious that Luke defeated saber-wise and force-wise 30 years in the past, when the only aid he received was Leia "unlocking some unknown resources" in him?
I don't like this. You're going to attribute PIS to Skywalker's relative restraint and yet use the defeat of a villain as genuine indication of Skywalker's skill? As you're so fond of saying, Skywalker was overcome by Exar Kun's spirit post-DE and he was also defeated by Desann and Lumiya years after that.
Skywalker did not defeat Sidious in a Force fight. It took the combined power of no less than three Skywalkers to temporarily remove Sidious from his Force Storm. Even then, it wasn't as if they defeated him outright.
Sorry. We almost never experience Luke using all he can, because that would turn the entire series into a joke. There would be no reason to put any duel into the books when Luke is involved, because there can be only one winner. In fact Luke could just be used as Deus Ex Machina in the TUFesque fashion. To prevent that, he is almost always restricting himself by various means (intentionally, unintentionally) or is confronted with situations where the odds are against him anyways (opponents that prepared battle with him, traps, etc.). Without that, every SW story would end in the same second Luke would decide to solve a problem himself.Yet if we assume him to be in his "top shape" which would mean "TUF combat feat" + "LotF Force control" I don't see anybody coming even close to stopping him.
You can't pick and choose, Nai. The fact of the matter is that even when he is not restrained (see his duel against Caedus), he does not exhibit powers that suggest he is a god, head and shoulders above his peers.
Originally posted by GideonNope.
Regarding Skywalker's immobilization of his nephew, to quote the passage: Skywalker may have held him there without visible effort, "but it was also true he took Caedus by surprise."
While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort-and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion.
Quote it right, *****.