Wolverine vs X-Men

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Where are you getting that? Some little kid thinks that but really these warriors of the black dragon look better than Shang Chi and Iron Fist and if Wolverine takes them by himself then he will just look insane as far as skill goes. I'm not saying that it will happen for sure just saying what it looks like. I actually think this can turn out really stupidly and I'm not even set that it's an accurate portrayal of Wolverine. Seems rather inaccurate actually.

Wolverine's skills were just so mediocre that they were able to beat him.

Originally posted by Mindset
Except the Black Dragon fighters don't look better than Shang Chi or IF, definitely not IF. 😬

Wolverine's skills were just so mediocre that they were able to beat him.

So them being so skilled at martial arts that they basically have superpowers isn't putting them above the likes of Chi or Fist? They are least as good as Fist. The fact that the fat one can kick as hard as the thing if the thing was an 11th degree black belt should atest to that.

Really go read the Wolverine respect thread of you think that his fighting skills are mediocre..

Because beating Cap in a fist fight would suggest otherwise..

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
So them being so skilled at martial arts that they basically have superpowers isn't putting them above the likes of Chi or Fist? They are least as good as Fist. The fact that the fat one can kick as hard as the thing if the thing was an 11th degree black belt should atest to that.

Really go read the Wolverine respect thread of you think that his fighting skills are mediocre..

Because beating Cap in a fist fight would suggest otherwise..

The comic says his skills suck, we are talking about the comic, I know what Wolverine is capable of. 😐

Oh wow, they know martial arts and have super powers...how does that make them as good or better than Danny? 9th degree black belt, and still, how does that make him Danny's level?

You make the claim w/o backing it up.

Originally posted by Mindset
facepalm

The comic says his skills suck, we are talking about the comic, I know what Wolverine is capable of. 😐

Oh wow, they know martial arts and have super powers...how does that make them as good or better than Danny? 9th degree black belt, and still, how does that make him Danny's level?

You make the claim w/o backing it up.

First of all, the comic doesn't say that Wolverine's skill sucks. Master Po says that Wolverine's skill sucks..Master Po also says that ninjas are unskilled imbeciles, yet those same imbeciles nearly killed Captain American - Wolverine had to save him. Master Po also says that Wolverine has the speed of a half-dead slug yet in the same issue, Wolverine dodges bullets. So what can you take from that? The only logical interpretation is that Master Po is just that much greater than Wolverine and that Master Po is making a point. He's saying that Logan needs to stop fighting like a retard and learn some new skill to defeat the Black Dragon's warriors. Because if he really thinks that Logan has the speed of a half-dead slug, he's retarded. But hey, we both know he isn't so really, there is no point in taking Master Po's words literally. What I get is that Logan sucks in comparison and that ninja's suck even harder in comparison to Master Po.

Also, you're taking a little boy's word that Logan is less skilled than Chi or Fist? I wonder why Logan never told them about the time he kicked Chi's ass with ease....maybe because that's not the point. The point is that Logan sucks in comparison to Po and in comparison to the Black Dragon's warriors.

The fact that Logan was getting owned so easily should tell you that they are well beyond Chi and Fist considering that Logan has beaten Chi with ease. It's simple logic really.

Also it's my understanding that they don't have any additional superpowers - their martial arts ability is so great that it puts them on that super human level...how is that NOT putting them at equals with Iron Fist?

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
First of all, the comic doesn't say that Wolverine's skill sucks. Master Po says that Wolverine's skill sucks..Master Po also says that ninjas are unskilled imbeciles, yet those same imbeciles nearly killed Captain American - Wolverine had to save him. Master Po also says that Wolverine has the speed of a half-dead slug yet in the same issue, Wolverine dodges bullets. So what can you take from that? The only logical interpretation is that Master Po is just that much greater than Wolverine and that Master Po is making a point. He's saying that Logan needs to stop fighting like a retard and learn some new skill to defeat the Black Dragon's warriors. Because if he really thinks that Logan has the speed of a half-dead slug, he's retarded. But hey, we both know he isn't so really, there is no point in taking Master Po's words literally. What I get is that Logan sucks in comparison and that ninja's suck even harder in comparison to Master Po.

Also, you're taking a little boy's word that Logan is less skilled than Chi or Fist? I wonder why Logan never told them about the time he kicked Chi's ass with ease....maybe because that's not the point. The point is that Logan sucks in comparison to Po and in comparison to the Black Dragon's warriors.

The fact that Logan was getting owned so easily should tell you that they are well beyond Chi and Fist considering that Logan has beaten Chi with ease. It's simple logic really.

Also it's my understanding that they don't have any additional superpowers - their martial arts ability is so great that it puts them on that super human level...how is that NOT putting them at equals with Iron Fist?

First of, you write too much.

And yet pretty much every street leveler owns ninjas w/o breaking a sweat. 😬
Except he doesn't dodge the bullets, all he does is jump behind a table, great speed feat. Master Po says he thinks Logan is less skilled than years ago. So obviously he isn't just talking about in comparison to himself. Logan didn't show any skill in manifest destiny, his only saving grace was his claws and healing factor.

The fact that 4v1 Logan was losing against chi amped martial artists, and because of that individually each one is better than IF? Give me a break...maybe using your logic.

You can't even stay consistent with your own stance, in the same post you have them as well above IF in skill, then later you say they are equal because they use chi.

So anyway who uses chi/martial arts is equal to IF? OK, that makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by Raoul
riiight.

yeah, no f*cking way is he pulling that off. half the people in that picture should wreck him.

They were all holding back as he was one of their own (the reason Wolverine was picked to take out the X-Men). But he thought the were villains who had just murdered Jubilee and went into a berserker rage.

Originally posted by The Pict
They were all holding back as he was one of their own (the reason Wolverine was picked to take out the X-Men). But he thought the were villains who had just murdered Jubilee and went into a berserker rage.

Originally posted by Mindset
*sigh*

First of, you write too much.

And yet pretty much every street leveler owns ninjas w/o breaking a sweat. 😬
Except he doesn't dodge the bullets, all he does is jump behind a table, great speed feat. Master Po says he thinks Logan is less skilled than years ago. So obviously he isn't just talking about in comparison to himself. Logan didn't show any skill in manifest destiny, his only saving grace was his claws and healing factor.

The fact that 4v1 Logan was losing against chi amped martial artists, and because of that individually each one is better than IF? Give me a break...maybe using your logic.

You can't even stay consistent with your own stance, in the same post you have them as well above IF in skill, then later you say they are equal because they use chi.

So anyway who uses chi/martial arts is equal to IF? OK, that makes perfect sense.

Yes, I write too much for you to counter. I understand. And can you please make a list of all the martial artists in the Marvel U who can chi-amp? Logic dictates that since these four can, they are at least on Fists level. And since they have the equivalent strength of The Thing IF the Thing was a ninth level black belt also says something. I can't think of anyone in the Marvel U actually that can say that except for Mandarin.

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Yes, I write too much for you to counter. I understand. And can you please make a list of all the martial artists in the Marvel U who can chi-amp? Logic dictates that since these four can, they are at least on Fists level. And since they have the equivalent strength of The Thing IF the Thing was a ninth level black belt also says something. I can't think of anyone in the Marvel U actually that can say that except for Mandarin.

Shang Chi
Steel Serpent
Prince of Orphans
Iron Fist
Mandarin
Temugin
Taskmaster
Fat Cobra
Dog Brother
The Bride of Nine Spiders
Tiger's Beautiful Daughter
Zhou (The guy sent to kill IF)

By your logic these people are all on the same level...

Just because you use chi doesn't put you on the same level as IF, and thinking so is silly.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shang Chi
Steel Serpent
Prince of Orphans
Iron Fist
Mandarin
Temugin
Taskmaster
Fat Cobra
Dog Brother
The Bride of Nine Spiders
Tiger's Beautiful Daughter
Zhou (The guy sent to kill IF)

By your logic these people are all on the same level...

Just because you use chi doesn't put you on the same level as IF, and thinking so is silly.

Perhaps not Chi-amping alone but being able to kick at the 100 ton level would surely indicate an ubber degree of skill. You can't kick that hard unless you are some kind of insane martial arts master. Half of those people on your list are either Top tier, Ubber tier, or Cosmic tier..actually more than half so really the odds of these guys being at least equal to Iron Fist is in very much favourable. Also, they owned Logan - he never even got a blow in. Anyone below top tier would have at least taken SOME punishment. He couldn't even hit these guys with his claws drawn. This, again, being the same guy who beat Chi with ease. The same guy who ninja's fear more than Shang Chi. hmmm...I think these guys are rather good - they are more skilled than Logan who has shown he is at least as good as Shang Chi....that's at the very least.

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Perhaps not Chi-amping alone but being able to kick at the 100 ton level would surely indicate an ubber degree of skill. You can't kick that hard unless you are some kind of insane martial arts master. Half of those people on your list are either Top tier, Ubber tier, or Cosmic tier..actually more than half so really the odds of these guys being at least equal to Iron Fist is in very much favourable. Also, they owned Logan - he never even got a blow in. Anyone below top tier would have at least taken SOME punishment. He couldn't even hit these guys with his claws drawn. This, again, being the same guy who beat Chi with ease. The same guy who ninja's fear more than Shang Chi. hmmm...I think these guys are rather good - they are more skilled than Logan who has shown he is at least as good as Shang Chi....that's at the very least.

I don't know what you mean by your made up tier list, lol.

Except they haven't shown to be equal to IF in skill, that's just your speculation because they were owning Wolverine 4v1. They wouldn't have to be on IF level to do that, they were keeping Logan off balance the whole time.

Ninjas fearing Logan more than Chi doesn't really say much, he kills them all the time, Chi doesn't. Logan beat current Chi?

Originally posted by Mindset
He says the guy hits like Thing, whether he can actually hit with 100 ton level has yet to be seen.

I don't know what you mean by your made up tier list, lol.

Except they haven't shown to be equal to IF in skill, that's just your speculation because they were owning Wolverine 4v1. They wouldn't have to be on IF level to do that, they were keeping Logan off balance the whole time.

Ninjas fearing Logan more than Chi doesn't really say much, he kills them all the time, Chi doesn't. Logan beat current Chi?

First, he says that the fat guy kicks like the Thing IF the Thing was a ninth degree black belt. This significantly increases the power of the kick to beyond the Things level. Second, I didn't make the list up, please read the MA rankings list on this forum. Third, Logan doesn't have to beat current Chi, because Logan has already beaten current Cap who is among Marvel's elite. And like I said before, over half the people you mentioned are among the elite of Marvel, which gives me a damn good reason to logically conclude that they are at least equal to Fist if not better. Considering that they can Chi-amp to beyond Things level and all. If Logan goes on to beat guys who would most likely be considered among the elite of Marvel martial artists, that is he goes on to say beat four of them at once without using his claws, then that really puts him ahead of the likes of Fist and Chi considering he was on par with them to begin with. Look all I'm saying is this is what it looks like - not that it's a for sure thing. I'm not the one writing it. But certainly, it leaves room for that interpretation - and in fact I would argue it's the most clear understanding of what's going on.

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
First, he says that the fat guy kicks like the Thing IF the Thing was a ninth degree black belt. This significantly increases the power of the kick to beyond the Things level. Second, I didn't make the list up, please read the MA rankings list on this forum. Third, Logan doesn't have to beat current Chi, because Logan has already beaten current Cap who is among Marvel's elite. And like I said before, over half the people you mentioned are among the elite of Marvel, which gives me a damn good reason to logically conclude that they are at least equal to Fist if not better. Considering that they can Chi-amp to beyond Things level and all. If Logan goes on to beat guys who would most likely be considered among the elite of Marvel martial artists, that is he goes on to say beat four of them at once without using his claws, then that really puts him ahead of the likes of Fist and Chi considering he was on par with them to begin with. Look all I'm saying is this is what it looks like - not that it's a for sure thing. I'm not the one writing it. But certainly, it leaves room for that interpretation - and in fact I would argue it's the most clear understanding of what's going on.

You think because they use chi they are equal to IF, yet I give you a list of people who use chi and all have varying degrees of power.

Now you're saying that if Logan beats them he will be above IF and Shang Chi...

How do you not see the many holes in your argument?

Originally posted by Mindset
You keep going on about them being equal to IF when the only thing you have to back it up is one appearance where they beat Logan 4v1...you don't have anything really.

You think because they use chi they are equal to IF, yet I give you a list of people who use chi and all have varying degrees of power.

Now you're saying that if Logan beats them he will be above IF and Shang Chi...

How do you not see the many holes in your argument?

1) The list you gave me comprised of at least 70% of people who are either better than Iron Fist or equal to him.

2)I never said he will be for sure I'm saying that Jason Aaron is doing a damn good job of making it look like that for the reasons I already listed. Seriously, if you can chi amp to give yourself the strength beyond the level of the Thing, you can't be anything below top tier. That is among the best fighters of Marvel.

3)If Logan beats four top-tier martial artists at once without using his claws, it practically puts him in a league of his own. Not something I necessarily agree with just using straight logic here.

It doesn't make any sense that these guys would have such insane chi-amping skill yet be fundamentally lacking in other MA ability. Yeah, like you train to Chi Amp at an ubber level but not anything else. Sheer logic dictates that if you're gonna chi amp, you're gonna be an ubbet skilled martial artist. Like as in...among the best in the Marvel U...alternatively you have a bunch of guys who spent all of their free time learning to chi-amp. That sounds just a little bit ridiculous don't you think?

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
1) The list you gave me comprised of at least 70% of people who are either better than Iron Fist or equal to him.

2)I never said he will be for sure I'm saying that Jason Aaron is doing a damn good job of making it look like that for the reasons I already listed. Seriously, if you can chi amp to give yourself the strength beyond the level of the Thing, you can't be anything below top tier. That is among the best fighters of Marvel.

3)If Logan beats four top-tier martial artists at once without using his claws, it practically puts him in a league of his own. Not something I necessarily agree with just using straight logic here.

He didn't chi amp to give himself strength beyond Thing.

You're right, if Logan beat four chi amped top tiers he would be in a league of his own, now when these guys prove they're top tiers you'll have a point.

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
It doesn't make any sense that these guys would have such insane chi-amping skill yet be fundamentally lacking in other MA ability. Yeah, like you train to Chi Amp at an ubber level but not anything else. Sheer logic dictates that if you're gonna chi amp, you're gonna be an ubbet skilled martial artist. Like as in...among the best in the Marvel U...alternatively you have a bunch of guys who spent all of their free time learning to chi-amp. That sounds just a little bit ridiculous don't you think?

You make assumptions on top of assumptions. Just because they are skilled doesn't make them as skilled as other established MA in Marvel, why can't you see this? What's ridiculous is you lack of proof yet your insistence on continuing on with your argument.

Anyway I'm done, believe what you want.

Originally posted by Mindset
*sigh*

First of, you write too much.

And yet pretty much every street leveler owns ninjas w/o breaking a sweat. 😬

Not all the time. Wolverine has got punked by ninjas twice and Ronin got badly messed up by the hand.

Man, Wolverine killed like 50 hand ninjas in his early days, when he was drunk!

Originally posted by Mindset
And you know how we know these people are on IF level or above, because they actually have the feats to back it up, something these 4 nameless fighters don't have...

He didn't chi amp to give himself strength beyond Thing.

You're right, if Logan beat four chi amped top tiers he would be in a league of his own, now when these guys prove they're top tiers you'll have a point.

Honestly, what are you talking about?

You make assumptions on top of assumptions. Just because they are skilled doesn't make them as skilled as other established MA in Marvel, why can't you see this? What's ridiculous is you lack of proof yet your insistence on continuing on with your argument.

Anyway I'm done, believe what you want.

First of all, I said from the beginning that I was assuming. Secondly, assumptions are not always wrong, and considering what I have to work with, I highly suspect that this is one of those cases. The fact that practically everyone you listed, if not everyone, is close to, as good as, or above Iron Fist just proves my point. If every character who can chi-amp has proven they are top-tier, then it is reasonable to assume that because these guys can chi-amp that they are also top-tier. It is simple logic. You train hard enough to chi-amp, you pretty much have proven you are among the elite. Considering again, that every single other character who can chi-amp has proven this. Why you can't see this is beyond me. Unless you want to consider them second-tier somehow among the ranks of Punisher and Sabretooth. Now honestly, that's a joke. Guys that can chi-amp automatically should be placed higher than any second-tier martial artist which, by default would place them in the top-tier category or higher.

Anyway, I never even said this was conclusive, I just said it's what it looks like. Logan was already on the level of Fist and Chi and he has numerous feats to back it up. Now if he beats four chi-amped fighters at once, it will still put him in a league of his own seeing as how, he was already on the level of Shang Chi - and two - he would have become at least four times greater than he was before. Hence we can conclude logically that he will be significantly better than both Chi and Fist.