Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Zoom.He's essentially faster and stronger than current Supes.
He's faster not stronger. Actually Supes can slow Zoom down with his freeze powers (Captain Cold can do it with his guns) and as I mentioned he's tagged Zoom before.
Since he can track Zoom all he needs is one good shot to win and I'm inclined to believe he can tag Zoom before Zoom even comes close to KO'ing him.
Originally posted by AllanklesHas Captain Cold done it to Zoom, that trick should only work on speedsters, Zoom isn't really a speedster.
He's faster not stronger. Actually Supes can slow Zoom down with his freeze powers (Captain Cold can do it with his guns) and as I mentioned he's tagged Zoom before.Since he can track Zoom all he needs is one good shot to win and I'm inclined to believe he can tag Zoom before Zoom even comes close to KO'ing him.
Originally posted by Allankles
He's faster not stronger. Actually Supes can slow Zoom down with his freeze powers (Captain Cold can do it with his guns) and as I mentioned he's tagged Zoom before.Since he can track Zoom all he needs is one good shot to win and I'm inclined to believe he can tag Zoom before Zoom even comes close to KO'ing him.
Doesnt zoom have near superman level punches? IF so then considering he moves ahead of the time stream or whatever, koing supes woudnt be extremely hard.
Originally posted by AllanklesConsidering the fact that a PIS-free Zoom could hit Superman millions of times before Supes could even react, it may not be as hard of a task as you think. There's also Zoom's ability to vibrate through solid matter - and if Zoom, say, vibrated his hand through Superman's head, the outcome certainly wouldn't favor big blue, rest assured.
Without BFR Zoom has to ko Supes (not an easy task with his powerset). Supes should have advantages with his flight. He can heat up the whole battlefield area thereby burning/melting the battle field preventing Zoom from running effectively.
Originally posted by AllanklesAs if Zoom isn't faster than Superman's breath? srsly
Or he can slow down Zooms kinetic energy in the air with his freeze powers (not likely to work if Zoom is accelerating but it can counter or impede Zoom for long enough for other powers to work.
Originally posted by AllanklesAgain, this is a PIS-free setting. If an amped Wally was incapable of tracking Zoom, Superman certainly would not be able to.
EDIT: It should also be mentioned that Supes can track Zoom and has tagged him at least on one occassion that I know of. So instead of shooting precise beams of HV he'll probably just heat up the whole area.
And imo, HV doesn't move nearly fast enough to hit Zoom anyway.
Originally posted by Galan007
Considering the fact that a PIS-free Zoom could hit Superman millions of times before Supes could even react, it may not be as hard of a task as you think. There's also Zoom's ability to vibrate through solid matter - and if Zoom, say, vibrated his hand through Superman's head, the outcome certainly wouldn't favor big blue, rest assured.
Supes isn't human he has a greater sub atomic density not to mention natural cosmic armor i.e. bio aura. Also Supes has enough control over his molecules to go intangible or reduce his density. So either way you'd have to be stretching to think Zoom can vibrate his hands through his head.
If you actually think about it how can any of these characters vibrate their bodies to this extent and maintain their form without complete molecular control of thier bodies?
Putting it in those terms you realize it's probably not a viable strategy for Zoom given Supes control of his own body. Not to mention if anyone here is picking out molecules and displacing them, Supes is better equipped with his microscopic vision.
Originally posted by Galan007
As if Zoom isn't faster than Superman's breath? srsly
Reducing kinetic energy has nothing to do with speed.
Originally posted by Galan007
Again, this is a PIS-free setting. If an amped Wally was incapable of tracking Zoom, Superman certainly would not be able to.
Wally (last i checked) doesn't have Superman's senses. You know they guy who can "hear" electrons being displaced?
Originally posted by Galan007
And imo, HV doesn't move nearly fast enough to hit Zoom anyway.
Widely dispersed energy radiation. Not to mention flight and the ability to constantly maintain said energy output.
Since other characters doing similar things to other characters is being brought into play (Captain Cold & Inertia)...
Flash said he would've been able to hit Zum (the white martian, all the abilities of J'onn, etc.) a thousand times before he'd even know it...but settled for one, because it was all he needed.
Now, Zoom is multiple times faster than Flash, and has already hit an Amazon 200 times before Diana could even react, just for the lulz.
Zoom also knows how to hit pressure points, and can react faster than Supes due to the nature of his powers.
No PIS, forum rules, Supes gets dropped hard.
Originally posted by AllanklesCo-sign.
Without BFR Zoom has to ko Supes (not an easy task with his powerset). Supes should have advantages with his flight. He can heat up the whole battlefield area thereby burning/melting the battle field preventing Zoom from running effectively.Or he can slow down Zooms kinetic energy in the air with his freeze powers (not likely to work if Zoom is accelerating but it can counter or impede Zoom for long enough for other powers to work. One good shot and Zoom is done. Id favor Supes more often than not.
EDIT: It should also be mentioned that Supes can track Zoom and has tagged him at least on one occassion that I know of. So instead of shooting precise beams of HV he'll probably just heat up the whole area.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Since other characters doing similar things to other characters is being brought into play (Captain Cold & Inertia)...Flash said he would've been able to hit Zum (the white martian, all the abilities of J'onn, etc.) a thousand times before he'd even know it...but settled for one, because it was all he needed.
Now, Zoom is multiple times faster than Flash, and has already hit an Amazon 200 times before Diana could even react, just for the lulz.
Zoom also knows how to hit pressure points, and can react faster than Supes due to the nature of his powers.
No PIS, forum rules, Supes gets dropped hard.
How about flight?. Increasing the ambient energy of their surroundings? Reducing kinetic energy all around them to the point where Zoom actually has to battle against energy reduction slowing him?
Supes doesn't have to make it easy for Zoom to tag him, in fact he can screw with Zooms speed given his power set and then hurt him with energy radiation.
Originally posted by Allankles
How about flight?. Increasing the ambient energy of their surroundings? Reducing kinetic energy all around them to the point where Zoom actually has to battle against energy reduction slowing him?Supes doesn't have to make it easy for Zoom to tag him, in fact he can screw with Zooms speed given his power set and then hurt him with energy radiation.
Flight doesn't matter when you get hit before even thinking about taking off into the air. In Flash 201 (I think), Flash and Zoom end up circling the globe a dozen times in a second, or something. Wally notes that he's seen plenty of his friends (and Superman is shown) but that none of them would be any help to him. They were too fast for everyone else to be of any use whatsoever.
And as far as the rest of it goes, in WW 214 Diana notes that Zoom was flickering in and out of the present time, ghostlike, like he wasn't really there. If anyone has scans, be my guest. I'm at work otherwise I'd do it myself.
But that's how Zoom's powers work - the whole HV, etc, doesn't matter - because of his ability to simply not be there. Not to mention that he can vibrate through any attack Superman, by some miracle, manages to launch - where it be HV or punches. And as far as his freeze breath...come on. Its compressed air. Zoom would outrun that.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Flight doesn't matter when you get hit before even thinking about taking off into the air. In Flash 201 (I think), Flash and Zoom end up circling the globe a dozen times in a second, or something. Wally notes that he's seen plenty of his friends (and Superman is shown) but that [b]none of them would be any help to him. They were too fast for everyone else to be of any use whatsoever.And as far as the rest of it goes, in WW 214 Diana notes that Zoom was flickering in and out of the present time, ghostlike, like he wasn't really there. If anyone has scans, be my guest. I'm at work otherwise I'd do it myself.
But that's how Zoom's powers work - the whole HV, etc, doesn't matter - because of his ability to simply not be there. Not to mention that he can vibrate through any attack Superman, by some miracle, manages to launch - where it be HV or punches. And as far as his freeze breath...come on. Its compressed air. Zoom would outrun that. [/B]
Everything you said was spot on (except it was Flash #200, not #201,) but I'm just nitpicking. 😛
And I could post scans, but what's the point with this guy?
Originally posted by Enyalus
Flight doesn't matter when you get hit before even thinking about taking off into the air. In Flash 201 (I think), Flash and Zoom end up circling the globe a dozen times in a second, or something. Wally notes that he's seen plenty of his friends (and Superman is shown) but that [b]none of them would be any help to him. They were too fast for everyone else to be of any use whatsoever.And as far as the rest of it goes, in WW 214 Diana notes that Zoom was flickering in and out of the present time, ghostlike, like he wasn't really there. If anyone has scans, be my guest. I'm at work otherwise I'd do it myself.
But that's how Zoom's powers work - the whole HV, etc, doesn't matter - because of his ability to simply not be there. Not to mention that he can vibrate through any attack Superman, by some miracle, manages to launch - where it be HV or punches. And as far as his freeze breath...come on. Its compressed air. Zoom would outrun that. [/B]
Supes is fast enough surely to take flight. Remember he knows Zoom's powerset and vice versa.
Freezebreath works because the forces giving Zoom's body his power (potential and kinetic energy) are expressed as heat energy in living things.
Supes need only affect the heat in his surroundings this will therefore affect the amount of energy Zoom has, as he'll have to willfully fight against energy reduction even as the finite energies within him are lost to the environment in the form of heat.
So it's a lose lose for Zoom as long as he's around Supes. Supes doesn't need to hit Zoom directly he can affect their surroundings.
EDIT: I take back what I said. Supes can heat Zoom directly with freezebreath if he surprises him with the attack the first time. Remember Zoom has no way of seeing the freezebreath coming unless he had prior warning or if Supes left a trail of frozen moisture for him to see.