New Punisher Dark Reign

Originally posted by willRules
If he killed someone because they murdered, what's his justification? They were a killer?

To stop them from murdering somebody else.

Originally posted by willRules

Maybe he does it to stop them from killing, but then he has to admit that someone should kill him to stop him from killing.

Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.

Originally posted by willRules

As for making the world a better place, that's not true. For every criminal he murders, reminds the reader that there is still one criminal running around committing mass murder. He may kill murderers, thieves, dealers etc etc, but he has committed genocide. I don't see it as a positive outcome in the end as Punisher is still out there, killing. Suddenly because the people are guilty, Punisher isn't?

That principle also applies to 100s of other superheroes. For every villain that gets locked up theres another one on the streets.

Originally posted by willRules

Oh and by the way in the Daredevil vs Punisher mini (which DD mopped the floor with Frank for the most part) Punsiher accidentally shoots an innocent homeless man.

Spiderman is also responsible for killing millions of people by accident....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.

😆 That was great.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To stop them from murdering somebody else.
Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.
That principle also applies to 100s of other superheroes. For every villain that gets locked up theres another one on the streets.
Spiderman is also responsible for killing millions of people by accident....

Totally agree with you. Those heroes are just as guilty. Just because they drew the line at killing doesn't mean they aren't guilty of assault ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Totally agree with you. Those heroes are just as guilty. Just because they drew the line at killing doesn't mean they aren't guilty of assault ✅

Ok im not being rude, but you are being serious right? So if somebody were to stop somebody from being mugged and used physical force its wrong?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok im not being rude, but you are being serious right? So if somebody were to stop somebody from being mugged and used physical force its wrong?

Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool ✅

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive ✅

That's my opinion anyway ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool ✅

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive ✅

That's my opinion anyway ✅

There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

Originally posted by tjcoady
There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

Yeah it was my fault for bringing it up. It's because I'm reading Ennis' run at the moment. It's well written and it's so fun to see Punisher shoot someone's head off but I can't shake the little niggling thing at the back of my skull called my conscience. I struggle to like the Punisher as a character as a result. For the most part the plots fun and the action is as expected over the top but the Punisher just feels stunted to me. He's like a Batman or Wolverine anti-hero figure but without the character progression ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah it was my fault for bringing it up. It's because I'm reading Ennis' run at the moment. It's well written and it's so fun to see Punisher shoot someone's head off but I can't shake the little niggling thing at the back of my skull called my conscience. I struggle to like the Punisher as a character as a result. For the most part the plots fun and the action is as expected over the top but the Punisher just feels stunted to me. He's like a Batman or Wolverine anti-hero figure but without the character progression ✅

What I like about the Ennis run is it's brilliantly simple formula, though. He creates a bad guy, and then progressively makes them so disgustingly, horrifically evil, until you can't wait for Frank to come in and kill them. I mean, I'm a pinko-hippie-liberal-pacifist and I was still like 'HELL YEAH FRANK! BLOW HER ****ING FACE OFF!' during the Ma Gnucci arc...

Originally posted by willRules
Don't get me wrong, Punisher's a cool character (I'm currently reading Ennis' run and it's great!) But his own actions betray his motivations. He operates under a perverse sense of morality that should ultimately condemn himself. If he killed someone because they murdered, what's his justification? They were a killer? Punisher deserves the same fate as them by his very own perverse logic.

Maybe he does it to stop them from killing, but then he has to admit that someone should kill him to stop him from killing. As for making the world a better place, that's not true. For every criminal he murders, reminds the reader that there is still one criminal running around committing mass murder. He may kill murderers, thieves, dealers etc etc, but he has committed genocide. I don't see it as a positive outcome in the end as Punisher is still out there, killing. Suddenly because the people are guilty, Punisher isn't?

Spoiler:
Punisher kills all the heroes villains etc. and at the end decides there is one left, himself, and takes himself out

Yeah thats Einnis... *shrug* I don't like him.

For his punisher stuff i only like his Marvel knights and MAX work (cept for that Punisher Born Nonsense)

Originally posted by Putar
Just an interesting tid bit. Have you read that one shot "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe". It has a similar theme to your questions about the morality of killing killers and such. It was a fun side story, i recommend you pick it up.

Spoiler:
Punisher kills all the heroes villains etc. and at the end decides there is one left, himself, and takes himself out

Yeah, I've read it and thought it was awful. Shooting Spider-man in the face? Electrocuting Wolverine? Blowing up Doom's face? Awful, awful comic ✅

Punisher kills the Marvel Universe is my least favorite thing Ennis' has ever written. It just seems needlessly violent- I'm a fan of the ole' Ennis' superviolence, but generally, he makes it serve the plot or act to reveal character traits. In "Punisher Kills the MU" it just seems like it was there just to shock, and well, a ton of violence isn't shocking- it's just kind of boring and needlessly brutal.

Fred Hembeck kills the Marvel Universe, on the other hand...

Now that's a good comic.

For a long time there was talk of a Deadpool Kills the MU in response the Punisher one, as a parody. I think a page was released in black and white (?) but nothing ever came out....

Originally posted by willRules
Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool ✅

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive ✅

That's my opinion anyway ✅

Ok but violence is just like alot of other thing. Violence in itself is not inherently evil, its why and how you do it that makes it wrong.

Originally posted by tjcoady
There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

Thats Einnis Punisher. Marvel Knights intention was to make a harder more gritier version of Punisher. Previous versions of The Punisher would not have done this.

Originally posted by tjcoady

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.

Hes hunting people that put other peoples life in danger so does Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine etc.

Originally posted by tjcoady

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

The current writer for this series in issue 1 stated that this issue would discussed in the coming issues. Its not off-topic really.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but violence is just like alot of other thing. Violence in itself is not inherently evil, its why and how you do it that makes it wrong.

Ah but this is where my beliefs come into play. I agree with you but the practical application of of this attitude is a lot easier said than done. There are times when people should stand up or fight for what is right, the problem is people often don't know what's right for them.

I better stop there before I shout out "Jesus loves you." 🙂

Originally posted by willRules
Ah but this is where my beliefs come into play. I agree with you but the practical application of of this attitude is a lot easier said than done. There are times when people should stand up or fight for what is right, the problem is people often don't know what's right for them.

I better stop there before I shout out "Jesus loves you." 🙂

Sorry man better leave it there then.

Anyway heres a look at issue 2. Hes defintely packing some new shit.

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6646.EXCLUSIVE_FIRST_LOOK~colon~_Punisher_%232

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/reviews/123367009695871.htm

Review of Punisher issue 2. Unfortunately we dont know anything about Punishers new sidekick apart from the fact he called Henry and is a hacker. Its speculated by the reviewer that hes former SHIELD ousted by Osborns HAMMER.

The cover art is great ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah, I've read it and thought it was awful. Shooting Spider-man in the face? Electrocuting Wolverine? Blowing up Doom's face? Awful, awful comic ✅