Captain Marvel (current) vs. Thor (current)

Originally posted by I'm Bran
No. You said I was thinking about putting a question mark a space after my words. I'd never do that.

Right, it hit his back, and then he rolled before anything could happen.

Because Adam just put his fists through the rock that has the power to crush Gods. He basically went through all the power, and it was never said that it only affected them by falling. Wait, I bet you have a scan to say it does... awaiting your scans.

Nothing was said that it affected him. And besides, he rolled out of the way. It hit him at best.

That was never stated anywhere (considering it's logical), and I didn't have the foggiest idea that was logical (considering it wasn't stated). I guess it's only logical when you want to reach for arguments other than "I don't like it, it didn't happen".
Also, if that is logical that if it hits you, that it weakens you, what if you hit it hard enough the shatter the entire thing? You're still making hard physical contact with it, no?

Yes assumptions. What if the guy who got hit by a shovel actually got hit by a rock light enough that he was still able to roll out of the way, and hellbowed the person who dropped it before he could even touch him?
What if the person was never shown to be affected by this falling rock? Also a shovel or rock wouldn't sap your strength, it would make you dizzy, stunned, bleeding, or hurt. Billy wasn't shown to have any of those...
Only said the last couple of sentences because you brought up the comparison before anything gets said.

Also, why were they able to gather the Power of Shazam by absorbing his power? He was weakened, they should have only been able to gather a little bit of power.

You said that you didn't type that to which I responded that you were thinking it. Not that I have anything against you thinking without space between words and question marks though.

You don't understand how the rock works. Its whole magical function is to fall upon the wizard and kill him. Nowhere is it stated that once you pound and destroy it .. you supposdley are affected aswell. Or perhaps you're thinking 'the powa in it !!!! and Black adam pounds and releases that pwoa but wut happen to him being affected by it'. This is an assumption, not what I'm doing. It's a goddamn magical rock, with magical properties. And that magical property is to fall upon the wizard and kill him.

I don't like it, it didn't happen since to be more akin to what you're doing. "Hey, Black Adam layed that trap specifically to hit Billy with the rock, the same rock which killed the original wizard, and it's pretty clearly depicted to hit Billy with Black Adam commenting on its power, but whatevah, I'm just going to ignore this plot point and say it was introduced for apparently no reason, and Black Adam beat Billy with the goddamn Wizard's power easily because .. he's just that powafull !!!!".

Why wouldn't they be able to gather the power ? Just because he was weakened doesn't mean his connection to the rock of eternity was suddenly gone. Anyhow, I doubt any more arguments will resurface, so I don't see the point of this discussion anymore.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Explain how that looks 'balanced' to you, Raoul?

it's no different than tons of superhero fights. good guy gets an initial mauling, only to get back on level terms. billy got his licks in. my point was that if isis wasn't there, billy would have recovered... thats all.

I agree with Philosophía about Billy getting hit with the piece of the rock. It HAS to be of some significance or BA would have had no reason to mention it.

Such a disappointment. From now on kids shouldn't inherit skyfather powers.

Billy should have just banished him to the Rock of Finality...

Aha. So there was at least something, even if it was flimsy. So what's this rock you guys are talking about? Scans?

Anyone know the issue of the fight between billy and black adam?

Originally posted by zeel
Anyone know the issue of the fight between billy and black adam?

JSA 23...came out Wednesday.

After Final Crisis it seems that Billy is at full strength and they have gotten rid of the shared power limit that existed before.

I was leaning toward Thor given his battle experience and level of opponents e.g. Celestials, Surtur, Kurse etc. but in the end I think Marvel wins.

Marvels powers are supposed to work synergisticly. That means Achilles courage and intensity should be amplified by the power of Zeus. That should be enough to negate any advantage Thor would have in terms of fighting spirit.

Solomon's knowledge should give Marvel the edge when Thor inevitably dips into the berserker rage. If the Hulk can push Thor into that zone, then certaintly Marvel who is stronger and more varied in his abilities should do the same.

I think Marvel wins by a razors edge even with Thor having the Odin force.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You said that you didn't type that to which I responded that you were thinking it. Not that I have anything against you thinking without space between words and question marks though.

You don't understand how the rock works. Its whole magical function is to fall upon the wizard and kill him. Nowhere is it stated that once you pound and destroy it .. you supposdley are affected aswell. Or perhaps you're thinking 'the powa in it !!!! and Black adam pounds and releases that pwoa but wut happen to him being affected by it'. This is an assumption, not what I'm doing. It's a goddamn magical rock, with magical properties. And that magical property is to fall upon the wizard and kill him.

I don't like it, it didn't happen since to be more akin to what you're doing. "Hey, Black Adam layed that trap specifically to hit Billy with the rock, the same rock which killed the original wizard, and it's pretty clearly depicted to hit Billy with Black Adam commenting on its power, but whatevah, I'm just going to ignore this plot point and say it was introduced for apparently no reason, and Black Adam beat Billy with the goddamn Wizard's power easily because .. he's just that powafull !!!!".

Why wouldn't they be able to gather the power ? Just because he was weakened doesn't mean his connection to the rock of eternity was suddenly gone. Anyhow, I doubt any more arguments will resurface, so I don't see the point of this discussion anymore.

Actually, I was only throwing out the same sort of crap scenarios that you were doing (following your line of logic as well).
I assumed you had proof to rule out what I said. I was assuming that you had proof that the rock only affected people if it fell on them. That's an assumption from me if anything, assuming you could actually prove anything you're saying.
Exactly. It was made to fall on him and kill him. If it doesn't kill him, then it has no purpose, no? It was never stated that if it didn't kill you it weakened you. It was never stated that if it love tapped you, that it would weaken you, but if we do assume that if it hits you that it weakens you, using your logic; then why wouldn't the person who crushed/hit the rock be affected as well?

It was a plot for BA to end it quickly as Smurph said. It failed, he had to improvise. It didn't kill him. Where was it stated it weakened him?

Good dodge though. Very nice. 👆

They're pulling the power out of him though. If he's weakened, or sapped in power, then they wouldn't be able to get his full power, nein?

I didn't see the purpose either, but I thought it was ok enough to keep going.

Either way, it wasn't stated to do anything to Billy afterwards (and what it was stated to do... it didn't, and it barely touched him for this level of power). So assuming such, is well, an assumption. Until something is stated in comics of course, because things change... but right now, nothing happened.

Also:

Originally posted by Philosophía
I say it did, based on Black Adam kicking his ass afterwards. 😐

Originally posted by Philosophía
No, it affected him because it was actually shown that it did, since Black Adam started kicking his ass afterwards.

Sometimes you have to use common sense.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Point is, the rock did hit him, and it's quite logical that if a rock that is made to kill gods hits you, you weaken.

Oh and also, I like this specific line as well (straight from the Jr Val's mouth):

Originally posted by Philosophía
Nobody said the rock hitting him made Shazam's power suddenly dissapear.

I find this line funny. I probably find it funny, because this line goes against all of your 'doesn't likes' arguments.
Nobody said that the rock weakens you.
Nobody said that Billy was weakened.
Yes? No?

Hypocrisy?

I could go on, but meh. I don't like 'debating'.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
I could go on, but meh. I don't like 'debating'.

You're good at it.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
I wasn't thinking of putting a space between the question mark.

Actually, I was only throwing out the same sort of crap scenarios that you were doing (following your line of logic as well).
I assumed you had proof to rule out what I said. I was assuming that you had proof that the rock only affected people if it fell on them. That's an assumption from me if anything, assuming you could actually prove anything you're saying.
Exactly. It was made to fall on him and kill him. If it doesn't kill him, then it has no purpose, no? It was never stated that if it didn't kill you it weakened you. It was never stated that if it love tapped you, that it would weaken you, but if we do assume that if it hits you that it weakens you, using your logic; then why wouldn't the person who crushed/[b]hit the rock be affected as well?

It was a plot for BA to end it quickly as Smurph said. It failed, he had to improvise. It didn't kill him. Where was it stated it weakened him?

Good dodge though. Very nice. 👆

They're pulling the power out of him though. If he's weakened, or sapped in power, then they wouldn't be able to get his full power, nein?

I didn't see the purpose either, but I thought it was ok enough to keep going.

Either way, it wasn't stated to do anything to Billy afterwards (and what it was stated to do... it didn't, and it barely touched him for this level of power). So assuming such, is well, an assumption. Until something is stated in comics of course, because things change... but right now, nothing happened.

Also:
Etc
"I don't like it, it didn't happen."

Oh and also, I like this specific line as well (straight from the Jr Val's mouth):

I find this line funny. I probably find it funny, because this line goes against all of your 'doesn't likes' arguments.
Nobody said that the rock weakens you.
Nobody said that Billy was weakened.
Yes? No?

Hypocrisy?

I could go on, but meh. I don't like 'debating'. [/B]

Your weren't thinking of putting a space between the word and question mark. You were thinking with a space between the word and question mark. Man, this has got to be the most useless exchange I've ever seen.

It's ironic how you mentioned 'nice dodge' in your post (the same way you did with the 'I don't like it, it didn't happen'😉, yet you're the one doing them. I already explained what is the function of the rock , and why what you're saying with Black Adam pounding on it supposdley being affected by it is illogical. What do you do now .. ask for scans ? Why the f*ck would I do that, while you sit on your ass and continuously bring up idiotic theories 'Bu .. but Black Adam wasn't affected when punching the magical rock who's function is to fall on the wizard and kill him. I don't care that I can't prove this is relevant to your point .. somehow this contradicts your argument !!1'.

Yeah, I'm sure a magical god-crushing rock had absolutley no effect on Billy, eventough it was depicted as falling on him, while Black Adam commented on his power. I'm just going to go with your perfectly logical theory, that the rock was introduced for apprently no purpose other than to show Black Adam wanted to finish the fight early, and that he flat-out beat Billy with the goddamn Wizard's power relativly easily because he's just that awesome.

In order to understand the whole 'was weakened but still retained Shazam's power' part you have to at least got to have some knowledge on the subject, the same way you had to have with the god-crushing rock. What BIlly inherited was the connection to the Rock of Eternity and becoming its guardian. And that connection is, as we saw, and also logical, independent of the Guardian being hit the god-crushing rock or being pounded on, that's why Isis has been able to severe that connection in the end, after Black Adam pounded on him. So no, being sucker-punched with the god-crushing rock and thus weakening isn't the same with his connection to the Rock of Eternity suddenly going 'Poof'.

Let's see, which theory is more plausible. Mine, that the god-crushing rock was introduced as a specific plot device in order to allow Black Adam to beat Billy with Shazam's power, and thus it being depicted hitting Billy while Black Adam comments on his power. Or yours, that the rock was introduced just to show Black Adam wanting to finish the fight fast, and that the pounding he gave Captain Marvel w/Shazam's powers was based on his power alone.

Yeah, I'm pretty tired of this 'debating' also. I guess I'll just have to wait and see how this is proven in the later issues. 🙂

Didn't read any of that. 👆

Good.

Go quan on me and blabber something then, ignoring what I said.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Good.

Go quan on me and blabber something then, ignoring what I said.

I'm not reading the wall of text you threw at me, 'cause I'll continue again.

I was under the impression that Black Adam attempted to crush Billy with the rock but that before he could, Billy rolled out of the way. Black Adam said "the rock itself is said to have the power to crush the gods." Other than Spectre stealing all of Shazam's magic and literally crushing Shazam with it, has this rock actually done so? Or was that just a playful allusion by Geoff Johns to the events in Day of Vengeance?

More than this... if touching the rock won't take powers away (which is obvious since Black Adam wasn't weakened by throwing his fists at it), why is it so conclusive that being hit by the rock would take his powers away? The plain presentation of the story doesn't appear to suggest that Billy had some or any of his power taken away by the rock. Especially since Billy immediately asks, "Are you here to free the sins? To get revenge? Or just to get your nose bloodied again?" Billy seemed pretty confident there, right after being hit by the rock. It's definitely not the reaction one would expect from one who just had his power drained.

Also, Billy's defeat seems more the product of what Black Adam directly suggested in his words, "Your time here, monitoring events from your perch atop the rock -- how long has it been? Long enough for you to grow soft like a wizard does?"