Originally posted by Galan007
No. You're a simple Lucifer fanboy.But with the last statement, fangirl is like ten notches above you... At least.
Hey, you must have some characters you're a fanboy of aswell.
.. right ?
What fangirl suggests Lucifer would do is quite simply impossible, due to what the armor is exactly, anyway.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Hey, you must have some characters you're a fanboy of aswell... right ?
What fangirl suggests Lucifer would do is quite simply impossible, due to what the armor is exactly, anyway.
Originally posted by Galan007
True. It would have been WAY better if Dianna would have donned the Cosmic Armor. lulz.On a serious note though, the 'Superman Beyond' comics were some of the more original issues I've ever read.
The SB comics were very good. It opened up a world of sci-fi DC sorely needed. But still, Wouldn't have been better to have wished a new character into existance. Or Had him meet a new character. Superman is all over the place in DC. From Low herald to Supreme being.
Originally posted by Galan007
The idea of Superman is what ultimately made him so powerful. That's why only he could have beat Mandrakk. That, imo, is an excellent plot-point.
Really? I find it the very definition of deus ex machina, the most worthless written solution to a convoluted horrible plot.
Just saying.
What the hell was up with Final Crisis: Superman Beyond?
I read a lot of comics, and have understood Final Crisis but those two issues had me stumped for some reason. I simply didn't understand the dialogue. It seemed more of a riddle to me than actual dialogue.
From what I understood, Mandrakk the first son of the Monitor was extremely powerful and the Cosmic Armor was meant to evolve instantly to a threat, and Superman with his pure essence transferred to a higher dimension, inhabitited the armor and was able to defeat Mandrakk, but how can we truly judge the scale or limits of either their power as no true indicitation was given?
I mean, did I miss something (I wouldn't be surprised with the way they story had me confused) but how can we match that Superman against a being such as Lucifer when he hasn't shown he can match him in power?
Did I miss something if so please point it out, because I would give a lot to understand some of the finer details of that story. Really had me stumped on some parts.
The reason most people are giving Cosmic Superman so much power is because of the scale of the thing.
The Orrery of Worlds (the entirety of the DC Multiverse) was a creation of the Monitors- they referred to it as "the germ worlds," and if we take sheer size as an indication of anything, the conceptual Superman inhabiting the armor was literally larger than the Multiverse, existing in a dimension outside of space and time.
Mandrakk is supposedly the most horrible threat to all of existence, as he is the embodiment of the void of nothingness.
I actually wasn't really sure who would win this fight, because to me it comes to down to which "structure" of the DC reality you think takes precedence: the Moore/Gaiman/Carey "Vertigo" top-down structure (which has plenty of regular DC Universe appearances to warrant its inclusion within the conceptual Multiverse) with a Judeo-Christian-esque God/Elaine in the Shining City OR the Morrison/Ellis/Johns parallel Multiversal structure, with the Bleed separating each portion of the Multiverse, and the Multiverse basically acting as a "fiction-cauldron" with the Monitors as the most powerful beings in existence.
I don't think it really has an answer; it depends on how you want to look at the DC Universe. It's kind of hard to synthesize both, and I doubt that there will ever be a "real" answer to it.
Originally posted by tjcoady
The reason most people are giving Cosmic Superman so much power is because of the scale of the thing.The Orrery of Worlds (the entirety of the DC Multiverse) was a creation of the Monitors- they referred to it as "the germ worlds," and if we take sheer size as an indication of anything, the conceptual Superman inhabiting the armor was literally larger than the Multiverse, existing in a dimension outside of space and time.
Mandrakk is supposedly the most horrible threat to all of existence, as he is the embodiment of the void of nothingness.
I actually wasn't really sure who would win this fight, because to me it comes to down to which "structure" of the DC reality you think takes precedence: the Moore/Gaiman/Carey "Vertigo" top-down structure (which has plenty of regular DC Universe appearances to warrant its inclusion within the conceptual Multiverse) with a Judeo-Christian-esque God/Elaine in the Shining City OR the Morrison/Ellis/Johns parallel Multiversal structure, with the Bleed separating each portion of the Multiverse, and the Multiverse basically acting as a "fiction-cauldron" with the Monitors as the most powerful beings in existence.
I don't think it really has an answer; it depends on how you want to look at the DC Universe. It's kind of hard to synthesize both, and I doubt that there will ever be a "real" answer to it.
I understand what you are trying to say, as they did state that Superman's essence was transferred to a higher dimension and from the scale of him, Superman was bigger than the Monitors.
I mean, he did state and show the size Limbo appeared from there, of course but weren't the Monitors present "in" the DC Universe like in Countdown etc.?
Are they different then? Different incarnations? I mean to them if it was a germ world, they would each be bigger than that dimension of the DC Multiverse.
Am I missing something again here?
I just was a bit confused with this two lone issues, and that get's me frustrated as this doesn't happen a lot to me.
As far as I understand, the Monitors in Countdown have been retconned to be mere representations of themselves, as perceived by "mortal eyes."
I think the problem here is that Dan Didio and DC were trying to do their jobs- make money- and they thought that aim was best served by "milking" Final Crisis with Countdown. Doing so kind of messed up the story (especially Death of the New Gods), and so Morrison's explanation was that Countdown and DOTNG was basically his "war in heaven" as far as humans (or Kryptonians or whatever) could understand what actually happened.
I think that's as much as DC is going to explain to us.