Crimzon we are not agreeing here. I believe I have a way in which we can settle this. Since both movies represent two different versions of Batman I am asking everyone on this thread to state the attributes of the Joker and Batman. Once everyone has agreed on the attributes we can say which actor portrayed them the best.
Here are some for Batman – Highly intelligent, detective, and skilled in martial arts, to name a few.
Originally posted by Kotor3
You really hate the Burton films don't you? I only have that type of hatred for the X-Men and Resident Evil films.
Yep.Only the Burton Batman films and The spider-man films-"just look at my sig-LOL,"do I have that kind of hatred for a comicbook film.I've never been an xmen fan but if I loved the xmen as much as I do Spidey and Bats,I guarantee you I would have the same hatred towards Bryan Singer that I do towards Burton and Raimi changing their costumes like they did.
Plus the thing I thought was dumb about Xmen is they shouldnt even bother making this new Wolverine movie.I mean come on,the first two X-men films were all about the character of Wolverine.He had the majority of the screentime.So yeah its a good thing I've never been an x-men fan or I would have been heaping mad about that movie when it first came out.The first two films should have just been called Wolverine.he was the star of those movies.sure wasnt an x-men movie about the origins of all the characters. 🙄
Originally posted by Kotor3
Crimzon we are not agreeing here. I believe I have a way in which we can settle this. Since both movies represent two different versions of Batman I am asking everyone on this thread to state the attributes of the Joker and Batman. Once everyone has agreed on the attributes we can say which actor portrayed them the best.Here are some for Batman – Highly intelligent, detective, and skilled in martial arts, to name a few.
Thats one more reason I put Keatons Batman at the bottom of the list.I always liked Kilmer the best of the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies cause he not only at least looked the part,he also acted like Bruce Wayne as well.Keaton just copied Chris Reeves performance as superman acting like a goofy dork as Bruce Wayne around Vicki Vale and being macho as Batman.
That works for Superman but that DOESNT work for Batman.Bruce Wayne is cool,suave and smooth with the women,not this nervous bumbling dork who cant remember his name or if he has ever been in a room in the mansion he has lived in his whole life. Kilmer portrayed wayne better cause he at least acted like him.
He was smooth with Chase Meridian in the movie like Wayne is with women.Plus Kilmer was a much better fighter that Keatons Batman.Keatons was a wuss who couldnt even beat one guy.That Black dude in the belltower.He got the crap kicked out of him by that goon.Bales Batman REALLY captured all the qualitys of Bruce Wayne and Batman,having plenty of women with him and showing how he can take out several dozens of bad guys at one time with his amazing martial arts abilitys Batman has. 💃
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Thats one more reason I put Keatons Batman at the bottom of the list.I always liked Kilmer the best of the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies cause he not only at least looked the part,he also acted like Bruce Wayne as well.Keaton just copied Chris Reeves performance as superman acting like a goofy dork as Bruce Wayne around Vicki Vale and being macho as Batman.That works for Superman but that DOESNT work for Batman.Bruce Wayne is cool,suave and smooth with the women,not this nervous bumbling dork who cant remember his name or if he has ever been in a room in the mansion he has lived in his whole life. Kilmer portrayed wayne better cause he at least acted like him.
He was smooth with Chase Meridian in the movie like Wayne is with women.Plus Kilmer was a much better fighter that Keatons Batman.Keatons was a wuss who couldnt even beat one guy.That Black dude in the belltower.He got the crap kicked out of him by that goon.Bales Batman REALLY captured all the qualitys of Bruce Wayne and Batman,having plenty of women with him and showing how he can take out several dozens of bad guys at one time with his amazing martial arts abilitys Batman has. 💃
I will address your comments about Keaton later. So for added qualities you stated cool, suave and smooth. I agree.
Mr. Parker looking at your statment again I really can't believe you stated Kilmer. The only thing he had was the square face. The only reason I do not give it to Bale is because his character was destroyed in TDK by the horrible script. The fact is TDK script is just a poor as the 1989 version of Batman if not worse. I will gladly point out everything that was poor it you would like me to.
Like i said,Kilmer at least wasnt a short runt with a balding, receding hairline and was tall and muscular like Bruce wayne is suppose to be. And you already agreed with me that he at least acted like Bruce Wayne as well and yes please point out to me how on earth Bale destroyed the character in TDK and how on earth TDK is a poor script. TDK doesnt even come close to being the god awful movie BATMAN 89 is.Nolans Batman movies have tons of non stop action in them throughout the movie like a Batman movie should have.They didnt just stand around talking practically the whole damn time and Nolans Batman didnt murder people either.
Once again you talk about Keaton’s looks and not his acting. Anyway I will be glad to be a movie critic for this discussion. To not make this extremely long I will simply state some of the most memorable stupid scenes.
TDK – What the Hell went wrong?
First scene of the movie we see the most stupid criminals possible in that only the last one can figure out what is happening.
Batman on a motorcycle heading to the Joker can do nothing but crash. That was the best batman could do?
A policeman is left inside not outside an office with the Joker who has no restraints on him. Do we see a fight scene no all we see is the Joker has the cop in his custody because the Joker is an all time fighter.
The Joker escapes because of a fat man who has a bomb inside or attached to him who comes inside of the police station. How the hell did that happen?
Joker is able to appear and accomplish assassination attempts. With what resources? Actually everything the Joker did in that movie you accepted because he is the Joker.
Harvey storyline was horrible the only thing they got right was his looks. All of a sudden he is able to appear in a top crime lord car as if he had no security and shoot the driver and survive.
Batman is no detective in TDK he can’t even figure out that the Joker is sending him to Harvey instead of his love.
Batman was nothing more than a brute in TDK.
No emotion when Rachael die and most all no sense of revenge do we ever sense from Batman.
His car could not take a bazooka blast neither did it have any gadgets to catch the Joker who wasn’t even riding in a special type of vehicle.
Joker is not chemically deformed, so why is he insane?
Joker is able to take over the gangs with what resources and how?
We never see gangsters hunting him even though a hit was put out on him.
Batman not once is able to get the upper hand on the Joker.
Why the movie is called The Dark Knight? The conflict that we see with Batman as to whether he will kill the criminals he hates so much was never displayed. Where was his hatred for criminals?
Batman and Rachael fall out a window from a building and somehow hardly any damage is done to them.
This is just a few of some poorly written scenes that I am stating off hand about TDK. Batman Begins was beautiful. TDK was alright.
The Burton and the Schumacher movies were crap for different reasons. They all sucked as hell, a nigthmare franchise to forget. Keaton was a disgrase for the role not only because he didnt look the part at all, he was a terrible bruce wayne, playing a Clark Kent wannabe or something. And the guy was a terrible fighter, slow as hell. Val Kilmer looked the part more than keaton, but he was too light as batman, althought a better fighter than keaton. Clooney was just a joke, playing himself as batman and playing himself as bruce wayne.The guy even didnt change his voice, as Keaton, Kilmer and Bale did. But Bale is the definitive batman. As bruce wayne, he is coold, the party guy, the atractive rich man who gets all the women. And as batman, he was a great fighter, he looked the part and is scary as hell with the bat mask. Maybe his voice sounded a little bit forced at times in the dark knight, but he was great in both movies. I think that he was almost equally as good in dark knight than in begins, but Ledger's joker outshadowed him. But Bale is the best one, the others were a joke. West was a good campy batman in a comedy way and Kevin Conroy was a great voice for batman.
To compare the dark knight script or begins script to the other stupid movies is funny as hell. Nicholson's joker beating the batwing with a gun??? Nicholson shooting keaton and not killing him because a plate???Bruce wayne being a dork who couldnt remember the rooms in his own house??? Some black guy beating the crap of batman, who is a martial arts expert??? Batman killing like a coward??? The joker dieing??? The penguin dieing??? The penguin is a freak who lives in a sewer with penguins??? Penguins in a sewer brading a baby??? A girl is back to life because the cats and now is a martial arts artist with super strenght and super agility??? And so on and so on.
Come on , dudes, if you are looking for some mistakes in the dark knight only take a look to the burton and shumacher movies, a big bunch of mistakes and disgraces that is funny to post all of them.
Originally posted by bakerboy
The Burton and the Schumacher movies were crap for different reasons. They all sucked as hell, a nigthmare franchise to forget. Keaton was a disgrase for the role not only because he didnt look the part at all, he was a terrible bruce wayne, playing a Clark Kent wannabe or something. And the guy was a terrible fighter, slow as hell. Val Kilmer looked the part more than keaton, but he was too light as batman, althought a better fighter than keaton. Clooney was just a joke, playing himself as batman and playing himself as bruce wayne.The guy even didnt change his voice, as Keaton, Kilmer and Bale did. But Bale is the definitive batman. As bruce wayne, he is coold, the party guy, the atractive rich man who gets all the women. And as batman, he was a great fighter, he looked the part and is scary as hell with the bat mask. Maybe his voice sounded a little bit forced at times in the dark knight, but he was great in both movies. I think that he was almost equally as good in dark knight than in begins, but Ledger's joker outshadowed him. But Bale is the best one, the others were a joke. West was a good campy batman in a comedy way and Kevin Conroy was a great voice for batman.To compare the dark knight script or begins script to the other stupid movies is funny as hell. Nicholson's joker beating the batwing with a gun??? Nicholson shooting keaton and not killing him because a plate???Bruce wayne being a dork who couldnt remember the rooms in his own house??? Some black guy beating the crap of batman, who is a martial arts expert??? Batman killing like a coward??? The joker dieing??? The penguin dieing??? The penguin is a freak who lives in a sewer with penguins??? Penguins in a sewer brading a baby??? A girl is back to life because the cats and now is a martial arts artist with super strenght and super agility??? And so on and so on.
Come on , dudes, if you are looking for some mistakes in the dark knight only take a look to the burton and shumacher movies, a big bunch of mistakes and disgraces that is funny to post all of them.
Yes there are problems with all of the scripts for the movies but do not try to say the TDK does not have issues and did not damage Batman’s character. Ok, you don’t like the fact that a dazed Batman killed someone out of defense who nearly killed him. For the record knowing martial arts does not mean you can go around wining every fight. You should watch Jackie Chain, Bruce Lee and some other Ku Fu movies where they had major issues with a Big though guy. Bale’s Batman sucked in TDK. He was not the same as he was in Batman Begins. That is my point. TDK script destroyed Batman’s character.
Every other script Batman was on top execpt for TDK, why because the Jackass writers wanted to make the Joker seem invincible.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again you talk about Keaton’s looks and not his acting. Anyway I will be glad to be a movie critic for this discussion. To not make this extremely long I will simply state some of the most memorable stupid scenes.TDK – What the Hell went wrong?
First scene of the movie we see the most stupid criminals possible in that only the last one can figure out what is happening.
Batman on a motorcycle heading to the Joker can do nothing but crash. That was the best batman could do?
A policeman is left inside not outside an office with the Joker who has no restraints on him. Do we see a fight scene no all we see is the Joker has the cop in his custody because the Joker is an all time fighter.
The Joker escapes because of a fat man who has a bomb inside or attached to him who comes inside of the police station. How the hell did that happen?
Joker is able to appear and accomplish assassination attempts. With what resources? Actually everything the Joker did in that movie you accepted because he is the Joker.
Harvey storyline was horrible the only thing they got right was his looks. All of a sudden he is able to appear in a top crime lord car as if he had no security and shoot the driver and survive.
Batman is no detective in TDK he can’t even figure out that the Joker is sending him to Harvey instead of his love.
Batman was nothing more than a brute in TDK.
No emotion when Rachael die and most all no sense of revenge do we ever sense from Batman.
His car could not take a bazooka blast neither did it have any gadgets to catch the Joker who wasn’t even riding in a special type of vehicle.
Joker is not chemically deformed, so why is he insane?
Joker is able to take over the gangs with what resources and how?
We never see gangsters hunting him even though a hit was put out on him.
Batman not once is able to get the upper hand on the Joker.
Why the movie is called The Dark Knight? The conflict that we see with Batman as to whether he will kill the criminals he hates so much was never displayed. Where was his hatred for criminals?
Batman and Rachael fall out a window from a building and somehow hardly any damage is done to them.This is just a few of some poorly written scenes that I am stating off hand about TDK. Batman Begins was beautiful. TDK was alright.
Dude you obviously have a horrible memory because you just acknowledged my points of me liking Kilmer better cause he at least acted like Bruce Wayne by being smooth,suave and cool with the women instead of doing what keaton did as Bruce Wayne copying Chris Reeves PERFORMANCE as Bruce Wayne/Batman by acting like a dork as Bruce Wayne not knowing if he has ever been in a room of a mansion he has lived in his whole life and being a nervous dork around Vale saying -Yeah Now Im sure that I am Bruce Wayne.
I thought I made it perfectly clear that I liked Kilmer much better cause of not only looking the part but ALSO cause he was a MUCH better Bruce Wayne ACTING the part unlike Keaton did. 🙄 I also got goosebumps when Kilmer was telling Chase about how he became Batman.He really did a great job as Bruce Wayne delivering his lines especially in that scene cause like i said,it gave me goosebumps. Please dont develop amnesia on me again.
I really dont want to have to repeat this AGAIN.I made it peferfectly clear in the beginning that the reason Bale is the one and ONLY true Bruce Wayne/Batman to have played the role so far is because Keaton while a good Batman doing good voice work like he did,was a HORRIBLE Bruce Wayne acting NOTHING at all like the part,Kilmer I liked MUCH better than Keaton cause he at least ACTED the part of Bruce Wayne BESIDES the fact he also looked the part.He was a great Bruce Wayne who is even more important a character than Batman cause Bruce Wayne MAKES Batman as everybody knows.as I siad in the beginning Keaton while he played BATMAN better than Kilmer did,he sucked cause he was a horrible Bruce Wayne in his portrayel of him.How damn hard is that for you to comprehend? 🙄 dont mean to get hostile but when someone cant remember something I told them why I liked Kilmer better just the other day it gets really annoying.
AGAIN here is why Bale is the one and only true Bruce Wayne/Batman to have played the role.
Keaton while he was a good Batman in the way he portrayed him sucked as Bruce Wayne because he not only looked nothing like the part but ALSO because his PORTRAYEL of Bruce Wayne was absolutley HORRIBLE!!!
Till Bale came along,Kilmer was the best actor to have played the role because he not only looked the part but he also PORTRAYED Bruce Wayne the best of the actors of Kilmer,keaton and Clooney which is crucial because again Bruce Wayne is the one who makes Batman who he is. Kilmer wasnt a good Batman though with the way he delivered his lines as Batman.Keaton was a good Batman but a lousy Bruce Wayne,Kilmer was a much better Bruce Wayne than Keaton but Keaton was a better Batman than Kilmer was. Clooney sucked in BOTH roles.
Bale again is the one and only true Bruce Wayne/Batman to play the role so far because he did what none of the other 3 actors were able to do.He was great as BOTH Bruce Wayne AND Batman in BOTH portrayels and this is coming from a guy who really is beginning to hate Bale as a person.Bale reminds me of Alec Baldwin.a very good actor but a real ass of a person in real life..I'll get to the rest of what you said in the next post.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Yes there are problems with all of the scripts for the movies but do not try to say the TDK does not have issues and did not damage Batman’s character. Ok, you don’t like the fact that a dazed Batman killed someone out of defense who nearly killed him. For the record knowing martial arts does not mean you can go around wining every fight. You should watch Jackie Chain, Bruce Lee and some other Ku Fu movies where they had major issues with a Big though guy. Bale’s Batman sucked in TDK. He was not the same as he was in Batman Begins. That is my point. TDK script destroyed Batman’s character.Every other script Batman was on top execpt for TDK, why because the Jackass writers wanted to make the Joker seem invincible.
Well I think your nitpicking way too much here.Like Bakerboy said so well if you want to look for mistakes,the Burton/Schumacher movies have countless numbers of them in them to look at.The only one that you mentioned that bothered me as well that I thought was a good point was Batman getting on the motorcycle and then dodging him at the last minute like he did.
That looked like too much of a copycat from Batman 89 in the showdown between Batman and The Joker.But it didnt bother me "too" much cause he wanted to kill him cause of all the havoc he had caused and it showed Batmans true character that he wont kill no matter how much he wants to.
Where with Batman 89 I was like-oh god how stupid,the Batplane cant even take a hit from one measely bullet? also the batplane was like a piece of shit.Batman was trying to kill him shooting at him with his guns on the plane and that piece of crap plane was so crappy it couldnt even hit The Joker.and the batplane is suppose to be a sophisticated state of the art machine. 😆 Thats what was such a disgrace about Batman 89 was Batman wanted to kill him from the very beginning for killing his parents.Like I said before,that works for The Punisher but its a disgrace for a Batman movie. 😠
Also what do you mean,no emotion when Rachel died? Batman wasnt at that scene of the crime when it happened.Joker misled him to Harvey Dent.If you remember,when Bruce did find out about Rachel being dead,he WAS depressed about her death and was seriously considering quitting as Batman because Batman was responsible for her death and Alfred had to talk him out of quitting.
I WILL be outraged with Nolan if it turns out that Harvey Dent IS indeed dead.I mean why even have him in the movie if he is only going to have Harvey Dent in throughout the whole film and then when he becomes Two Face towards the end,kill him off? that would be stupid.come on,thats something those two idiots Burton and Schumacher would do but not Nolan.
I think people are gravely mistaken thinking that Harvery Dent is dead.The ground was soft,the fall wasn't up that high, and Batman survived the landing.Plus Batman and the commissioner didnt look that broke up about it or remorse and everybody thought Commissioner Gordon was dead as well.Boy when i thought that,I was beginning to gate Nolan myself saying -How can that ******* Nolan kill off Commissioner Gordon? He is just as important as Batman is to the Batman movies. I dont see Nolan all of a sudden becoming an idiot like Burton and Schumacher killing off Two face when Two Face hasnt even done nothing yet as a villian.
Thats a bad example though comparing Batman being a wuss in that fight with that jokers goon to those 3 actors you mentioned because with Jackie Chan,Bruce Lee and the other Kung fu movies,of course you got to have them face off against some big dude who has fighting skills that rival their own to make it exciting at the end.otherwise its boring if they dont have someone to fight who has skills that match their own and its easy for them.LOL. Like in Jean Claude Van Damns movie Double Impact,it wouldnt have been exciting at the end if he easily wipped that chinese guy he was fighting.Nolans Batman portrayed the true Batman that he is in the comics showing how he can take out dozens of guys at one time.
That was another reason why I liked Kilmers Batman better than Keatons was like i said,they at least showed the true martial arts skills he had beating up 5 or 6 guys at one time.That dude had no special fighting skills at all.Keatons Batman was a wuss.Nolans Batman could have easily have beat that guy in seconds blindfolded. 😆 thats the TRUE Batman that Batman fans know and love.
Mr. Parker I do understand what you and Babarboy are saying. Yes there are things we can say about all the movies but I want to be clear on the point I am making. It was stated at the being of this thread and I will mention it again.
In the 1989 version what we saw was a war between Batman and the Joker. Let us put aside Keaton’s looks and Nicholson’s looks. The movie was made to be comic book style at the same time it showed a Batman who was very emotional due to the fact that he faced a Joker who killed his parents. This was of a personal nature. He was on edge and we clearly saw his hatred for criminals. Batman is not a normal guy or detective he wants to do what is right. He is physiologically off.
In the animated series there is a two-part episode where Robin finds the killers of his parents. When Batman explains to him why he tried to prevent Robin from finding the killer is was not so Robin could not get his revenge as Batman stated but it was because he did not want Robin to get hurt due to his high emotions.
We also saw this type of emotion in Batman Begins where we saw a confused Bruce Wayne and a much darker Batman. In TDK this was missing. As you stated before Batman pondered on the kind of person he would have to become to face the Joker but after making that statement we never saw the emotion in him again. TDK script was not made to make Batman superior but to make the Joker superior which it did and that is why it failed. Any true Batman fan knows that Batman is the most intelligent master mind and superior to all the villains he face. That is why he could be one of the top leaders of the Justice League even though he had no super powers.
This is why Bale is not the best Batman. Unless he makes another movie in which his character is redeemed.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
^It is excepted canon that Joker is an unpredictable and exceptional fighter at times.
Exceptional fighter, what arts does he know? Anyway I will leave this one alone. The way he killed Robin was absolutely ridiculous to me. That is why I can’t keep up with comics to many changes.
Mr. Parker as for my memory problem I believe you are not understanding my statements. It is hard to forget something that you have posted so many times on this thread. I hope my point is clear in my previous post.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again you talk about Keaton’s looks and not his acting. Anyway I will be glad to be a movie critic for this discussion. To not make this extremely long I will simply state some of the most memorable stupid scenes.TDK – What the Hell went wrong?
First scene of the movie we see the most stupid criminals possible in that only the last one can figure out what is happening.
Batman on a motorcycle heading to the Joker can do nothing but crash. That was the best batman could do?
A policeman is left inside not outside an office with the Joker who has no restraints on him. Do we see a fight scene no all we see is the Joker has the cop in his custody because the Joker is an all time fighter.
The Joker escapes because of a fat man who has a bomb inside or attached to him who comes inside of the police station. How the hell did that happen?
Joker is able to appear and accomplish assassination attempts. With what resources? Actually everything the Joker did in that movie you accepted because he is the Joker.
Harvey storyline was horrible the only thing they got right was his looks. All of a sudden he is able to appear in a top crime lord car as if he had no security and shoot the driver and survive.
Batman is no detective in TDK he can’t even figure out that the Joker is sending him to Harvey instead of his love.
Batman was nothing more than a brute in TDK.
No emotion when Rachael die and most all no sense of revenge do we ever sense from Batman.
His car could not take a bazooka blast neither did it have any gadgets to catch the Joker who wasn’t even riding in a special type of vehicle.
Joker is not chemically deformed, so why is he insane?
Joker is able to take over the gangs with what resources and how?
We never see gangsters hunting him even though a hit was put out on him.
Batman not once is able to get the upper hand on the Joker.
Why the movie is called The Dark Knight? The conflict that we see with Batman as to whether he will kill the criminals he hates so much was never displayed. Where was his hatred for criminals?
Batman and Rachael fall out a window from a building and somehow hardly any damage is done to them.This is just a few of some poorly written scenes that I am stating off hand about TDK. Batman Begins was beautiful. TDK was alright.
Wow. This is just... This is just not right.
Kotor, i dont know why are you saying that the dark knight destroyed the batman character. In the comics, the joker is very smart, but batman is smarter. In the movie , at the end, batman wins i think. He knowed about the joker's plan and captured him at the end. He won against a great criminal mastermind as is the joker, and without killing him. I dont know betrayal or destroy thing is this.
In the batman 1989, for me to make the joker the killer of his parents was just a mistake. Batman and joker fight each other not because something that personal, but because what they portrays and represents. Batman is the order, the justice in his own. Joker is anarchy, terrorism, absurd, madness. Just two symbols against each other. Two faces of a coin. But if you make joker the killer of his parents, this is more a personal war against this particular criminal, a personal vendetta, and that is a mistake. I thing that to have a joker without past , a mysterious madman was the best way to portrayal the character, and it made their war more atractive.
And yes, as mr parker has said very well, if Nolan killed two face in the dark knight, that will be a great mistake because two face is a so great villain that he deserves a movie in his own to developes all his glory. I really think and hope that two face is still alive. In the other hand, yes, Bale looks a so full of himself guy in real life, but he is a great actor and he portrayed batman and bruce wayne the best.
And dont mistake me, i dont saying that for being a martial arts artists he couldnt get problems in a fight. But the problem was that he was a slow and bad fighter in the first two batman movies. That black guy beated him very easily. He was hurted? yes, but still a top martial arts artist. I have sseen a hurted batman beating the crap of the likes or killer croc or clayface. One strong guy without any martial arts skills at all couldnt beat him so easily as he did, that was just stupid.
The joker isnt a specially good fighter. He is a crazy dude, and he has good luck and his madness made him umpredecible and very strong at times, but he isnt a rival for batman in fighting skills.
Also,Kotor3, i could respect you because you are discussing in a very civilized way, and althougth i dont agree with your points, i respect you and your arguments.
Originally posted by bakerboy
Kotor, i dont know why are you saying that the dark knight destroyed the batman character. In the comics, the joker is very smart, but batman is smarter. In the movie, at the end, batman wins i think. He knowed about the joker's plan and captured him at the end. He won against a great criminal mastermind as is the joker, and without killing him. I dont know betrayal or destroy thing is this.
Originally posted by bakerboy
In the batman 1989, for me to make the joker the killer of his parents was just a mistake. Batman and joker fight each other not because something that personal, but because what they portrays and represents. Batman is the order, the justice in his own. Joker is anarchy, terrorism, absurd, madness. Just two symbols against each other. Two faces of a coin. But if you make joker the killer of his parents, this is more a personal war against this particular criminal, a personal vendetta, and that is a mistake. I thing that to have a joker without past , a mysterious madman was the best way to portrayal the character, and it made their war more atractive.
Originally posted by bakerboy
And yes, as mr parker has said very well, if Nolan killed two face in the dark knight, that will be a great mistake because two face is a so great villain that he deserves a movie in his own to developes all his glory. I really think and hope that two face is still alive. In the other hand, yes, Bale looks a so full of himself guy in real life, but he is a great actor and he portrayed batman and bruce wayne the best.
Originally posted by bakerboy
And dont mistake me, i dont saying that for being a martial arts artists he couldnt get problems in a fight. But the problem was that he was a slow and bad fighter in the first two batman movies. That black guy beated him very easily. He was hurted? yes, but still a top martial arts artist. I have sseen a hurted batman beating the crap of the likes or killer croc or clayface. One strong guy without any martial arts skills at all couldnt beat him so easily as he did, that was just stupid.
Originally posted by bakerboy
The joker isnt a specially good fighter. He is a crazy dude, and he has good luck and his madness made him umpredecible and very strong at times, but he isnt a rival for batman in fighting skills.
Originally posted by bakerboy
Also,Kotor3, i could respect you because you are discussing in a very civilized way, and althougth i dont agree with your points, i respect you and your arguments.
Thx
Batman did kill people in the comics though early on. Didn't all comics get chided for their violence and then DC introduced Batman's no kill rule as a wussy cop out and they just turned it into something that was an integral part of his mythos? Personally I don't want Batman intentionally killing anyone but I'm not gonna whine if a few people die that he's trying to catch as a result of him pursuing them or trying to stop some greater evil.
Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Batman did kill people in the comics though early on. Didn't all comics get chided for their violence and then DC introduced Batman's no kill rule as a wussy cop out and they just turned it into something that was an integral part of his mythos? Personally I don't want Batman intentionally killing anyone but I'm not gonna whine if a few people die that he's trying to catch as a result of him pursuing them or trying to stop some greater evil.
Beautifully said!