Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavI don't know if you could, part of me wants to but the other part doesn't. I think that it is more of the spirit that we take in and not the actual blood and body of him. I feel the connection to God but I believe the bible to be teaching of his word as best man can understand.
One cannot be practising Catholic/Roman Catholic if one does not believe in Transubstantiation.So yes, while the Church claims a billion faithful it really probably has only a very small number (few million) who are actually in full communion with the Church and therefore Jesus Christ.
You of course are not to blame for this, it is probably the result of bad teaching, personally I wonder what the Jesuits are doing in the States...
Could I perhaps persaude you to believe in transubstantiation so that you can return to full communion with Christ?
Originally posted by .😮U812:.
I don't know if you could, part of me wants to but the other part doesn't. I think that it is more of the spirit that we take in and not the actual blood and body of him. I feel the connection to God but I believe the bible to be teaching of his word as best man can understand.
In the Bible Jesus tells people that they must eat his body and drink his blood.
Also, what I think is important to remember is that the Bible is a product of the Church, the Church is not a product of it. Therefore any authority the Bible has stems from the Church. As Saint Augustine said "Indeed, I would not believe the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so."
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavBut the church created the Bible, so are you saying that if the Bible is incorrect then the Church as to be? The Church debated and went through all of the scriptures and "approved" all of them to be in the cannon so how could the Bible not be an authority?
In the Bible Jesus tells people that they must eat his body and drink his blood.Also, what I think is important to remember is that the Bible is a product of the Church, the Church is not a product of it. Therefore any authority the Bible has stems from the Church. As Saint Augustine said "Indeed, I would not believe the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so."
Originally posted by Da Pittman
But the church created the Bible, so are you saying that if the Bible is incorrect then the Church as to be? The Church debated and went through all of the scriptures and "approved" all of them to be in the cannon so how could the Bible not be an authority?
That is not what I said, what I said is the Bible's authority comes from the Church.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Though the Church created the Bible.
😖
That's what I said...kinda self-explanatory to me.
The Church said, this is our Canon of Scripture which contains the some teachings of Jesus Christ.
It is not and was never thought to be a complete record of Christ's life or his teachings.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavSo the Bible is not the word of God? I think you are missing the point, if the Church created the Bible and the Church is supposed to be in touch with God and the Bible is supposed to be the word of God how can the Bible or the Church be wrong?
😖That's what I said...kinda self-explanatory to me.
The Church said, this is our Canon of Scripture which contains the some teachings of Jesus Christ.
It is not and was never thought to be a complete record of Christ's life or his teachings.
Edit: So if this is some of his theaching are these teachings wrong?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavI have lost some of my faith with the church as of late, hearing the stories of things in the news of stuff that is not God like and following of his words. I know that it is only a few bad people but when the church does not do something I think that it is wrong.
In the Bible Jesus tells people that they must eat his body and drink his blood.Also, what I think is important to remember is that the Bible is a product of the Church, the Church is not a product of it. Therefore any authority the Bible has stems from the Church. As Saint Augustine said "Indeed, I would not believe the gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so."
Originally posted by Da Pittman
So the Bible is not the word of God? I think you are missing the point, if the Church created the Bible and the Church is supposed to be in touch with God and the Bible is supposed to be the word of God how can the Bible or the Church be wrong?Edit: So if this is some of his theaching are these teachings wrong?
aah I see.
The people who wrote parts of the Bible are believed to have been Divinely Inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. As such the Bible contains Divine Revelation. However it is not believed that the Bible contains all revealed truths.
So, the Bible is a product to aid the Church in it's ministry,you might notice that there have been additions to the Canon over time, so the perceptions of Canon can and has changed.
Is the Bible the word of God? Not in the sense that it is believed to be without error and be dictated by God- how Muslims view the Koran.
[edit] Why would my saying that the Bible contains "some of his teachings" lead you to think that this means they are wrong? I really do not see the logical flow there...
Originally posted by .😮U812:.
I have lost some of my faith with the church as of late, hearing the stories of things in the news of stuff that is not God like and following of his words. I know that it is only a few bad people but when the church does not do something I think that it is wrong.
Members of the Church can do bad things but this does not mean that the Church has lost it's authority to teach. Peter denied Jesus three times but he never lost his apostleship.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavOK, learn something new every day.
aah I see.The people who wrote parts of the Bible are believed to have been Divinely Inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. As such the Bible contains Divine Revelation. However it is not believed that the Bible contains all revealed truths.
So, the Bible is a product to aid the Church in it's ministry,you might notice that there have been additions to the Canon over time, so the perceptions of Canon can and has changed.
Is the Bible the word of God? Not in the sense that it is believed to be without error and be dictated by God- how Muslims view the Koran.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
In Roman Catholic theology we call it a miracle.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavAs in how I feel about the Church running things? Well personally I have more issues with the Church than the bible, well with most organized religions in general. I see so much corruption in the Church that it is hard for me to think of them as holy and not even as of late but throughout history. People in the Church has used the idea of it to gain power and wealth throughout its long history, it would take a "miracle" for it to change at least in my view.
Your views?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
As in how I feel about the Church running things? Well personally I have more issues with the Church than the bible, well with most organized religions in general. I see so much corruption in the Church that it is hard for me to think of them as holy and not even as of late but throughout history. People in the Church has used the idea of it to gain power and wealth throughout its long history, it would take a "miracle" for it to change at least in my view.
Well, I tend to agree- there has been a vast amount of Corruption and the like in the Church...but then again, human beings are flawed and it is always going to happen in any setting...
The fact that there are more sinners than saints in the Church does not mean that the Church has lost God's grace though...
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well, I tend to agree- there has been a vast amount of Corruption and the like in the Church...but then again, human beings are flawed and it is always going to happen in any setting...
Stuff like child molestation isnt corruption thats pure evil.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The fact that there are more sinners than saints in the Church does not mean that the Church has lost God's grace though...
Maybe not but it certainly shows theres something wrong with it.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavIt also shows that they haven't had it either. If things like this can happen and humans are flawed, then the Pope can be flawed since it is man that elects him.
Well, I tend to agree- there has been a vast amount of Corruption and the like in the Church...but then again, human beings are flawed and it is always going to happen in any setting...The fact that there are more sinners than saints in the Church does not mean that the Church has lost God's grace though...
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneGav says that the Pope is infallible therefore the Church is the authority of Gods will and design and not the Bible, however the Church is run by man and not divine as we can see through the things that it has done. Both the Bible and the Church contradict, corrupted and created by man and are far from divine.
Whats your point by the way?
Yes that is true, but even though the Church makes errors God continues to uphold her teachings and gives her authority.
Priests who molested Children in the Church are a tiny minority and proportionally the Church has as many as any other institution i.e. the US Education service.
Yes it was and is a horrible thing but God does not abandon the Church.
The thing with the Pope is that he is not infallible due to anything within him but because God has given his promise to uphold the Pope's doctrinal teaching.