Wonder Woman (Diana) vs Fantastic Four (Spider-man, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Hulk)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Off the top of my head, the Doomsday clone and Etrigan. You have those fights in your own respect thread. Thor has timed a single swing to catch multiple bullets. Considering he can just spin Mjolnir to guard against a continuous or staggered stream of bullets, why would he bother swinging Mjolnir around back and forth? To show off? Just because he hasn't done so, doesn't mean he doesn't have the speed to do so.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Lulz. The Doomsday Clone didn't hit wondy while in evasive maneuvers unless you are talking about when she was busy worrying about cassie. Lulz at that. And Etrigan didn't hit her mid evade. She wanted to slug it out with him. This guy has proven to be a good fight for Superman. So of Course Wondy would wanna get some good licks in. As for thor, I haven't seen him do any circular type of blocking. as in in front of him, on the side of him, etc.

So you want me to find a scan where she's in the middle of dodging a blow and she gets hit anyway. Dodging the blow presupposes that she isn't being hit. You're asking me to prove an impossibility. Not only that, but anytime she does get hit, you revert to the excuse that, "Well Wonderwoman wanted to get hit because she reverted to slugging it out."

On one hand, you won't accept a fight where she gets hit by bricks, because she never gets hit when she has already evaded an attack. That's preposterous. She's been hit in fights against bricks. And on the other hand, you make excuses that Wonderwoman let herself get hit by bricks because she wanted to slug it out with them. That's self-defeating logic at the end of the day. because if Wonderwoman has slugged it out with bricks because of CIS, then since CIS is still on, there's a good chance she'll slug it out with bricks in this particular thread.

Bottom-line, Wonderwoman has superspeed. But you make generalized statements that are nothing short of ridiculous. Nobody short of Jay Garrick can tag her? Please. You make it sound like she's on par with the Flash. Flash makes her speed look like a joke.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
... nothing of what you said makes sense.

So you want me to find a scan where she's in the middle of dodging a blow and she gets hit anyway. Dodging the blow presupposes that she isn't being hit. You're asking me to prove an impossibility. Not only that, but anytime she does get hit, you revert to the excuse that, "Well Wonderwoman wanted to get hit because she reverted to slugging it out."

On one hand, you won't accept a fight where she gets hit by bricks, because she never gets hit when she has already evaded an attack. That's preposterous. She's been hit in fights against bricks. And on the other hand, you make excuses that Wonderwoman let herself get hit by bricks because she wanted to slug it out with them. That's self-defeating logic at the end of the day. because if Wonderwoman has slugged it out with bricks because of CIS, then since CIS is still on, there's a good chance she'll slug it out with bricks in this particular thread.

Bottom-line, Wonderwoman has superspeed. But you make generalized statements that are nothing short of ridiculous. Nobody short of Jay Garrick can tag her? Please. You make it sound like she's on par with the Flash. Flash makes her speed look like a joke.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Yeah it's his ability to be part of the story where the author wants a good read. The Hulk is not tagging Wondy or any other speedster if they dont' want him to. And let's not forget that even if he can hit her, which is stretching it, he still has to get past her defenses. Shield/Bracers pretty much will block any blows he does actually manage to land.

This is exactly it and it makes no difference how many times you say it.

Characters in comics have displays of what they can really do. Then they have fights where they seem to be fighting far below their abilities for the sake of the story. Why? To make the fight more exciting. Its a story.

But I always thought the appeal of a forum like KMC was for the person who reads a story and says, "Oh come on. This is all well and good for a story but really, if the writer wasn't ignoring [fill in the blank], this would be over and done with." This could be the Flash getting hit by an opponent that never has displayed super speed. This could be the Hulk tagging Quicksilver or the Punisher suddenly becoming fast enough to hit Daredevil but only during the fight with Daredevil is he that fast.

So again, this should be ideal for people who say, 'What would really happen without the PIS or dramatic license?' But instead it becomes ignoring feats and invoking PIS rather than dismissing it and even insisting that one character doesn't get her optimal level while another character that someone prefers to see win does.

Originally posted by carver9
😕

None of those prove that she goes anywhere close to the speed of light and also prove to me that superman heat vision is the speed of light when normal bricks have put there hands out fast enough to block them.

But again, those are impressive feats and wonder woman reflexes is next to none, except maybe flash but far less then anyone in this battle has tagged that ass.

Actually the Shattered God pulled the shards of himself from the farthest reaches of the universe in about less than a second from saying he was going to do it. Clearly beyond lightspeed.

For me though, the light speed thing isn't a big issue. I'm just saying she is way too fast to get hit by the Hulk without PIS.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Your statements wreak of someone who just doesn't know jack about Wondy. And please don't use flash. He makes everyone's speed Look like a Joke. Including The surfer. Wondy slugs it out when she wants to. When she wants to use her speed, she kicks it up. She's been able to catch even the gods of speed hermes and mercury off gaurd. No one in this thread is going to touch her. even if they could tag her, they would still get Blocked with a bracer or her shield.

"Nobody short of Jay Garrick is tagging her. She wins."

"Yes, bricks can hit her. But they miss when she dodges the blow (No crap). She only gets hit when she wants to slug it out. She wins."

"Flash makes her speed look like crap. BTW, Surfer is slow compared to Flash too. She wins."

🙄

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
He mentioned the Storm fight . . . I'm officially done reading this thread lol

I'm tempted to be with you here. 🙂

Oh yeah because Storm beating her was so believable. 🙄

And people don't post scans of WW getting tagged by attacks that her high showings demonstrate should never have been able to hit her for the same reason they don't post scans of the Hulk getting punked by the Rhino. Because such a showing is ridiculous. Based on his established high-end demonstrations of strength and durability, such a thing should never really be able to happen.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Strawman fallacy is when i mischaracterize your argument. It's not when I supposedly mishcharacterize a feat. And Thor does swing his hammer to intercept bullets. He also has spun his hammer around to block them. But had you ever opened a Thor comic, you'd know he also simply bats bullets away in a single stroke.

No. It's not. It's CIS, and CIS is still on in these fights.
It was Bizarro Metropolis, not Metropolis. And it was essentialyl a Lego building block city if you actually look at the city.
Funny, she gets hit by slower-than-Flash characters all the time. Whose being facetious now?

Oh yeah, the Flash gets hit by the Trickster and Captain Cold when he is nice enough to operate slower than he needs to. While neither WW or Superman are on that speed level, writers ignore character's powers, speed being one of the biggest ones they ignore, all the time. So you are using scenes where the writer ignores a character's abiltities as your evidence.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Oh yeah, the Flash gets hit by the Trickster and Captain Cold when he is nice enough to operate slower than he needs to. While neither WW or Superman are on that speed level, writers ignore character's powers, speed being one of the biggest ones they ignore, all the time. So you are using scenes where the writer ignores a character's abiltities as your evidence.

That's not PIS, that's CIS. PIS is when Flash gets tripped up by a shockwave stomp. Wonderwoman assaulting the team with her strength, speed and skills without first resorting to a FTL superspeed lasso toss/BFR is not PIS, it's CIS. And CIS is on.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Straw-man. That's not what I'm saying. I asserted that Wonderwoman cannot win this fight in the first picosecond for three reasons: 1) Wonderwoman isn't actually that fast; and 2) Wonderwoman traditionally uses her superspeed in specific situations like projectile blocking or when the odds are overwhelming (i.e. Superman, Amazo, Zoom).

That's not PIS, that's CIS. PIS is when Flash gets tripped up by a shockwave stomp. Wonderwoman assaulting the team with her strength, speed and skills without first resorting to a FTL superspeed lasso toss/BFR is not PIS, it's CIS. And CIS is on.

You're bullshitting and refusing to accept the numerous on-panel showings that prove that in fact she does have that level of speed. Why?

This is KMC, not CBR or Herochat. And here, we assume people are at full capacity and will use every means at their disposal to win. You're attempting to equate obvious writer handicaps and story considerations to KMC style rules.

You have no feats to prove the team can face her. That's why no one has posted scans of speed feats or reflexes to try and show they can match Wondy. Again, why?

The answer is simple. THEY CAN'T. Because there are no feats that would justify such a high assumption of speed as to be able to tag her. The entire team combined does not have a single speed feat on her level. They are completely outclassed.

And your outright refusal to accept it but endorse such strategies for the likes of Thanos or Silver Surfer or Odin, etc, is clearly bias on behalf of Marvel.

So quit the ****ing wanking and get the hell out of this forum. The last thing we want is more trash from Herochat. 👇 headshotkmc

Calm down, sport.

She can't beat Wolverine. He pierced Thanos.

Wonder Woman has to block bullets with her bracelets. Adamantium>bracelets.

Team wins.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
I'm tempted to be with you here. 🙂

Oh yeah because Storm beating her was so believable. 🙄

And people don't post scans of WW getting tagged by attacks that her high showings demonstrate should never have been able to hit her for the same reason they don't post scans of the Hulk getting punked by the Rhino. Because such a showing is ridiculous. Based on his established high-end demonstrations of strength and durability, such a thing should never really be able to happen.

The Shattered God scan is easily proof of that.......

Heat Vision.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228647_job17mx/

Evacuates a town
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228652_speedan6/

Pulls Jesse Quick out of the speed force
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/35/1228739_672x1020.jpg

Here's some numbers for those asking for them. The Sacrifice fight went into outer space at one point, and Max Lord had Checkmate's Brother Eye check the calculations and time the round-trip. From earth to the sun, and back. 00:01:54 total elapsed time.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228648_job29bn/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228392_job40cx/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228649_job131ps/

The Sacrifice fight is not something that we cite as a pinnacle of evidence, but what it does prove is that Wondy can fight Superman at his level, and hold her own. Whether she can win is another story.

Lasso as a weapon
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1229120_scan0014/

And finally, the Shattered God feat.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/26/1228690_560x867.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/26/1228691_560x867.jpg

Across the universe, and there in less than a panel. GEE, YA THINK MAYBE THAT'S >LIGHTSPEED?!

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The Shattered God scan is easily proof of that.......

Heat Vision.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228647_job17mx/

Evacuates a town
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228652_speedan6/

Pulls Jesse Quick out of the speed force
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/35/1228739_672x1020.jpg

Here's some numbers for those asking for them. The Sacrifice fight went into outer space at one point, and Max Lord had Checkmate's Brother Eye check the calculations and time the round-trip. From earth to the sun, and back. 00:01:54 total elapsed time.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228648_job29bn/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228392_job40cx/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228649_job131ps/

The Sacrifice fight is not something that we cite as a pinnacle of evidence, but what it does prove is that Wondy can fight Superman at his level, and hold her own. Whether she can win is another story.

Lasso as a weapon
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1229120_scan0014/

And finally, the Shattered God feat.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/26/1228690_560x867.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/26/1228691_560x867.jpg

Across the universe, and there in less than a panel. GEE, YA THINK MAYBE THAT'S >LIGHTSPEED?!

Heres spiderman dodging lasers ( which is light ) So he has faster than light reflexes also.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6634101

Lulz at the last posts.

It seems like we have a new idiot in town.

Here spiderman dodges a bullet that has already been fired, SPIDERMAN IS FASTER THAN LIGHT BY MOVEMENT RULES.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6506479

Edit.

Originally posted by james2099
Heres spiderman dodging lasers ( which is light ) So he has faster than light reflexes also.http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6634101

Yeah because aim-dodging is the same thing as literally moving your arms fast enough to block multiple blasts moving at light speed.