Improving Star Wars

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Mmm, I think you forgot your own thread.

I didn't. Just wondering how you'd explain much of this and why you'd declaw the villain.

But it's your opinion and I completely respect that; I just personally see no sense in it. But I did like your explanation for the Sith draining away the power of the Force. That was pretty damn interesting.

Edit: By the way, the thread says "redesign the EU", which doesn't include the movies. Even in our wildest dreams, I don't think Lucas would give us permission to scrap his brainchildren. Just the material surrounding it.

Originally posted by Gideon
The post-RotJ era has a couple of gems amongst a field of stones.

I agree. Stuff like I Jedi, Courtship of Princess Leia, Truce at Bakura (I thought was decent as an intro novel immediately following ROTJ).

Parts of Dark Force Rising were decent. Even post OT hero-parenthood had its share of decent novels like Traitor, and I liked some of the Force Heretic trilogy for what it tried to do with Tahiri.

The NJO produced some interesting characters like Nom Anor and Vergere that I would have to fit in somewhere, in a revision.

Originally posted by Gideon
Edit: Faunus, I can sympathize and understand a great deal of what you said, but the whole "faces death versus Yoda" still makes no sense. Why? Because he's smart, so he must be physically vulnerable? Then the reverse would have to apply to wise old Yoda, making him rather stupid.

I did, however, gloss over Yoda. Simply put, I'd have him be, as a martial user of the Force, as good as they get. Essentially unmatched power, nearly a millenium to hone it. He wouldn't use a saber either, at least not for the most part, because he simply doesn't need it. He's still the wise one, but that fatal arrogance that the PT almost managed to capture leads him to underestimate Palpatine.

I would actually redo his entire battle with Palpatine as some massive chase ending in some sort of brief confrontation (which Yoda flees from for one reason or another), with the Sith subtly messing with him the entire way. Think back to when Grievous goes after Palpatine in the CWC. Sounds strange, but it could be both a tense character/relationship moment and an opportunity to show how badass Yoda is (because he wouldn't have had a movie fight until that point).

The villain isn't supposed to be the underdog. He's supposed to be the guy who is going to win until the very last second.

And again, Palpatine's victory needn't be purely physical. I think taking over the galaxy sort of counts as a "win."

Nom Anor and Vergere are phenomenal characters, as are Pellaeon, Mara Jade, Lumiya, and Turr Phennir. I'd have to keep those, though I'd apply them a little differently.

Kyp Durron should just... not exist.

And I'm alright with the inclusion of Nom Anor, provided it's done in a way that allows for a brief glimpse at the Yuuzhan Vong without leading to the minor fiasco that was the NJO series.

Originally posted by Publius II
I'm fairly certain I specified twice that I didn't intend for him to be "weak." I put down several thousand characters about how his advantages in the mind should be exemplified by having him be less of an outright physical threat, yet still have a few tricks up his sleeve if push came to shove (lightning, telepathy). This puts more emphasis on Darth Vader as an extension of his will.

I'm fairly certain I said "vulnerable", not "weak." And I'm equally certain that there is a difference.

I did, however, gloss over Yoda. Simply put, I'd have him be, as a martial user of the Force, as good as they get. Essentially unmatched power, nearly a millenium to hone it. He wouldn't use a saber either, at least not for the most part, because he simply doesn't need it. He's still the wise one, but that fatal arrogance that the PT almost managed to capture leads him to underestimate Palpatine.

And in order for his complacency and arrogance to undo him, his 'wisdom' would have to be relatively limited.

I would actually redo his entire battle with Palpatine as some massive chase ending in some sort of brief confrontation (which Yoda flees from for one reason or another), with the Sith subtly messing with him the entire way. Think back to when Grievous goes after Palpatine in the CWC. Sounds strange, but it could be both a tense character/relationship moment and an opportunity to show how badass Yoda is (because he wouldn't have had a movie fight until that point).

I can understand this. Given Yoda's pissed off state and the fact that Palpatine needn't be the end all be all in terms of martial prowess, I could see him fighting a retreating battle -- but taunting Yoda the entire time. Or that and he's called in support from clones or whatnot to aid him.

Transformers did that. Prime looked like a *****, no one was happy.

And again, Palpatine's victory needn't be purely physical. I think taking over the galaxy sort of counts as a "win."

Yes, but in order to make Yoda's blatant superiority in combat credible, you'd have to make it clear that Palpatine pretty much played him quite easily in every other possible way and that it is the last resort of an individual has totally and irrevocably lost (a lot like Palpatine's attack on Luke Skywalker).

Originally posted by Publius II
Kyp Durron should just... not exist.

What do you mean?

His obscene level of power or his entire personality? Being the ideological counterpoint to Skywalker, which nearly resulted in a schism in the New Jedi Order, was interesting.

And I'm alright with the inclusion of Nom Anor, provided it's done in a way that allows for a brief glimpse at the Yuuzhan Vong without leading to the minor fiasco that was the NJO series.

Big question: Vong or no Vong?

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm fairly certain I said "vulnerable", not "weak." And I'm equally certain that there is a difference.

And in order for his complacency and arrogance to undo him, his 'wisdom' would have to be relatively limited.

And his wisdom make him complacent and -somewhat- arrogant. He thinks he's prepared for everything and eradicated or at least pinpointed just about every major threat, so he thinks he can afford to be a little complacent.

I can understand this. Given Yoda's pissed off state and the fact that Palpatine needn't be the end all be all in terms of martial prowess, I could see him fighting a retreating battle -- but taunting Yoda the entire time. Or that and he's called in support from clones or whatnot to aid him.

Yes, but in order to make Yoda's blatant superiority in combat credible, you'd have to make it clear that Palpatine pretty much played him quite easily in every other possible way and that it is the last resort of an individual has totally and irrevocably lost (a lot like Palpatine's attack on Luke Skywalker).

Of course, it would also have to be clear that despite his control and quiet interference, Palpatine is very much in danger; hence an entire (well-executed and still in-character) sequence featuring Yoda breaking shit.

Originally posted by Gideon
What do you mean?

His obscene level of power or his entire personality? Being the ideological counterpoint to Skywalker, which nearly resulted in a schism in the New Jedi Order, was interesting.

It's a little hard to swallow.

Big question: Vong or no Vong?

I definitely wouldn't ever let yoda have a lightsaber he should just use the force and nothing else.

also I'd make the PT actually I dunno coincide with stuff mentioned in th OT like leia actually knowing her real mother and having anakin actually be the greatest pilot in the galaxy.

Well, a lot of EU does make Anakin out to be the greatest pilot in the galaxy. That's one of many things that the CWC did very well.

i thought it was canon that seasee was a better pilot than anakin?

I could agree with all of that, Faunus. But as I said, when it came to using the Force for subtlety, deception, and prolonging enemy weakness, Palpatine would have to be the pinnacle of the Sith.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's not impossible either. In fact, being the weakest of all his predecessors and still managing to do what they couldn't--not through martial might but rather through his ability to manipulate and deceive... that makes him great in my books. The greatest, really. Doesn't mean he HAS to have the most power. My preference. I like the mystery of the ancients, like Ragnos. I like the idea that ever since the Sith emerged in the Great Hyperspace War that the Force has been... withdrawing from everybody. Palpatine's death ends the Sith and opens up a well of power for the NJO. I like that idea.

Oh and Allankles' ideas---*thumbs up*

See, this is why I would think they need to make Sidious the most powerful. BECAUSE he was the most powerful, he succeeded where everyone else has failed. He alone was born with enough power to complete the destruction of the Jedi. He alone tipped the force in favor of the dark side. He alone confused the Jedi. I think it's all warranted but that's just my opinion.

I understand where Faunus and Tangible are coming from; Palpatine need not be the ultimate Sith in regards to martial prowess; he was more of a scholar and a schemer than a warrior. But there should be certain advantages relative to Force use that he has over other Sith and Jedi.

Originally posted by Gideon
I understand where Faunus and Tangible are coming from; Palpatine need not be the ultimate Sith in regards to martial prowess; he was more of a scholar and a schemer than a warrior. But there should be certain advantages relative to Force use that he has over other Sith and Jedi.

I also understand but I maintain that he couldn't have done what he'd done without being the absolute master of the darkside and being the most powerful sith lord. As you've said, he had the mastery that no other sith had, which allowed him to cloud the minds of the jedi and unbalance the force.

I would make revan,traya and nihilus as weak as ****, so weak that r2d2 could easily kill them with his electric zapper.

Originally posted by Publius II
Oh, and Ahsoka doesn't exist. That's one of my biggest gripes with TCW.

yeah seriously wtf. the only PADAWAN to be able to contend with Grevious and beat him.. kind of.

Also.. I want to see Yoda go darkside. for fun at least.. or teach starkiller. They are in the same time period also. And I want yoda to live to see Luke's Academy and the defeat of Darth Krayt.

Originally posted by Publius II
Oh, and Ahsoka doesn't exist. That's one of my biggest gripes with TCW.

yeah seriously wtf. the only PADAWAN to be able to contend with Grevious and beat him.. kind of.

Also.. I want to see Yoda go darkside. for fun at least.. or teach starkiller. They are in the same time period also. And I want yoda to live to see Luke's Academy and the defeat of Darth Krayt.

And I really want to see Yoda getting pissed cuz he is the embodiment of the perfect Jedi and since no one is perfect, I wanted to see him get pissed and use force lightning or something. Or a "Yoda scream". or perhaps demonstrate some uber coolness that would pwn palpy at that last fight.

and Palpy is too overpowered. He shouldn't be that powerful, just the greatest because he took over the galaxy. He was more like a smart, scheming character that uses political manipulation to suit his needs. and Vader should reach his full potential. Starkiller survives their conflict and Yoda trains him. He kinda becomes an Obi-Wan to Luke and they teach Luke together after Obi-Wan's death after episode 4.

Luke has this final confrontation with Vader, and utterly gets pwned. Palpy gets pissed and tortures Luke like in episode 6. Same thing except Vader somehow uses his unlimited force reserves and finally kills palpatine off and gets to be sith lord.

He is unstable because of his love for Luke, but he is so far in the dark side it is hard for him to come back. Luke and Starkiller together defeats Vader and convinces him to reject the Dark side. Meanwhile Krayt is gathering his order of crapsith.

There aren't so many generations between Ben skywalker and Cade skywalker. like 1 generation of unknown ppl. then goes to Cade. so Ben would be Cade's grandfather.

Krayt attacks the Jedi with his sith army, and manages to kill kol skywalker. Cade demonstrates his remarkable ability to bring people from the dead, which Anakin realizes this was the power he was looking for the whole time. anyways.. too bad cuz Padme died a looong time ago.

Also, Anakin Solo shouldn't have died. xD

As for the Kotor era...

More Cutscenes showing what Revan, Malak, Bastila, Nihilus, Sion, Kreia, Exile can do. in other words, more combat cut scenes. and no freaking early releases for christmas or any of that crap.
SWBF3 should come out with Kotor era (not kotor era mod although that is a pretty nice mod..) needs more locations and powers like force server, death field, better saber system, different classes. U kno how in the original swbf2 (not bfx mod) the classes all have the same weapons. Ex: Imperial engineer and republic engineer, or rebel engineer all have the shotgun, health&ammo, fusion cutter etc. They should be different.

crap why am I talking about swbf2.. this was about EU. oops sry about that.

ok I'm kinda done w/ my rant. lol

oh yeah. more backstory on people like marka ragnos, and naga sadow and those kidna people. maybe a Kotor 3 for them...

EDIT: sry for double post. something's wrong w/ my internet or maybe i'm clicking too many times...

Originally posted by Gideon
I could agree with all of that, Faunus. But as I said, when it came to using the Force for subtlety, deception, and prolonging enemy weakness, Palpatine would have to be the pinnacle of the Sith.