Originally posted by Raoul
Someone want to tell me how the midgard serpent fight relates to this fight?
Our friend h1 believes that Superman is at least ONE BILLION times (yes one billion) stronger than thor. Hence with Kurse being at best 8 times stronger than thor he believes that superman is also billions of times stronger than Kurse as well. This stems from his belief that thors best feat (lifting the midgard serpent) only places him at the 500-1000 tons strength range.
Originally posted by Naija boyEvery meaning implies something light or insubstantial. Read my post above. I'll try to get that for you though.
Please post this reference u are talking about where it talks about only the head materializing as no such thing was ever mentioned in the comic. As has been shown ethereal has multiple meanings and the meaning u are so obstinately trying to use does not apply in this context.
Because by posting the scan will prove to everyone that it makes no sense for the serpent to not be in intangible form. We can clearly see how they used the context of the word.
There was no reason for me to show the scan where it says that the serpent was in ethereal form as its existence was never being debated. All that is being debated is ur assumption of the meaning of ethereal in that context.
I believe this is wrong. Thor fought Fin Fang Foom and defeated him.
Ur estimation of the 500-1000 tons frankly is completely asinine. when thor lifted up Fing fang foom, it was actually the midgard serpent disguised as fing fang foom and so even then it was way more than 500-1000 tons. Moreover that instance is irrelevant anyways as the nature of the feats are not the same.
If the boat provided no assistance then how can someone with 3-4 feet arms completely pull a Serpent as long as the circumference of the Earth off the planet? Try pulling a string wrapped around a basketball off by only pulling a millimeter.
Again, where are u getting this erroneous belief that hte boat was suppling some pulling power? No such thing was EVER suggested or shown so how did u surmise that? Hamir the giant even places emphasis on thors strength when referring to the feat. The boat provided no assitance at all.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Our friend h1 believes that Superman is at least ONE BILLION times (yes one billion) stronger than thor. Hence with Kurse being at best 8 times stronger than thor he believes that superman is also billions of times stronger than Kurse as well. This stems from his belief that thors best feat (lifting the midgard serpent) only places him at the 500-1000 tons strength range.
The midgard serpent feat is unquantifiable because of both the ethereal body and the boat. The feat I'm referring to is when Thor lifted a large creature. This may or may not have been Fin Fang Foom but another creature.
Originally posted by h1a8
This what my dictionary says. If the Serpent was completely solid then why would it make sense to for both the comic and Handbook to say that it is in ethereal form as if the Serpent had a choice not to be. Heavenly implies of the celestial spheres (an [B]imaginary sphere that extents from Earth to the stars). Thus it is nonsense to say that the Serpent is in celestial spheres form (ethereal form) which also means imaginary.
I know this because my dictionary's third definition of ethereal says, of the celestial spheres; heavenly. Look up celestial spheres.
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BEcause by ethereal the comic was not referring to the serpents intangibility but rather was referring to the serpents heavenly and exalted nature. Further, Planets and stars are also referred to as "celestial bodies" and they certainly are not immaterial or imaginary. Are going to seriously try and argue that the only meaning of heavenly is imaginary or immaterial? Heck even without looking at a dictionary u should know that is false.
Magneto can crush something with his magnetic force powers. A jedi can crush a ship with the force. Dr. Strange can crush something through magically forces. It is very understandable that something can magically crush the Earth without even being material
The situations u described are in no way analogous to this one. The comic talked about thor forcefully breaking the serpents grip of earth. and hence overpowering its entire body. Further as my scans have shown the serpent body was shown as being physical and solid in multiple instances and never was it ever shown as being intangible in that situation.
Originally posted by h1a8
The midgard serpent feat is unquantifiable because of both the ethereal body and the boat. The feat I'm referring to is when Thor lifted a large creature. This may or may not have been Fin Fang Foom but another creature.
You admitted that even if your theory is correct and it can materialize when it chooses to thus explaining them walking over it's body. Then why not admit he obviously lifting more then just a head and it could've been his whole body or part of his body as you say since he can materialize at it's choosing. Furthermore, even if your theory is correct (which i don't believe because clearly part of his body is there) then the force a creature of that size could generate against and griping would be astronomical. Whether Thor lifted the weight of it or not it would still have the same pulling griping power of snake that since plus it's magical abilities. That my friend clearly alone far and away makes it WAY more then 1000 tons
Originally posted by h1a8Because the comic never said that, and God only knows what handbook word language you're twisting. In fact, the comic said:
This what my dictionary says. If the Serpent was completely solid then why would it make sense to for both the comic and Handbook to say that it is in ethereal form as if the Serpent had a choice not to be. Heavenly implies of the celestial spheres (an [B]imaginary sphere that extents from Earth to the stars). Thus it is nonsense to say that the Serpent is in celestial spheres form (ethereal form) which also means imaginary.
I know this because my dictionary's third definition of ethereal says, of the celestial spheres; heavenly. Look up celestial spheres.[/B]
No, it implies that it's from Heaven, or could be from Heaven... which basically means astounding, magnificent, or fantastically awesome in almost any form that we use it in.
Originally posted by h1a8...
Magneto can crush something with his magnetic force powers. A jedi can crush a ship with the force. Dr. Strange can crush something through magically forces. It is very understandable that something can magically crush the Earth without even being material.
Why didn't he pass through the Earth?
How was he resting there?
Couldn't he have started to crush Earth by being any distance away?
How could Thor shatter the grip of the him when he was actually intangible?
Why are you using a most likely made up handbook to refute what happened in the comics?
And last but not least... are you serious?
Originally posted by h1a8Right, but everyone is in agreement that Kurse is at least 3x stronger than Superman.
I have no problem with it.
It may be relevant since Kurse's strength is directly related to Thor's. Knowing Thor's strength proves Kurse's strength which prove whether him or Superman would win.
Originally posted by Naija boyHeavenly as used in the ethereal definition (heavenly has more than one definition too) implies Celestial Spheres and not bodies. I know this because the American Heritage Dictionary's third definition of ethereal says "of the celestial spheres; heavenly". The heavenly is summarizing the meaning of celestial spheres. And looking up celestial spheres shows that it is an imaginary sphere extending from the center Earth to the stars.
BEcause by ethereal the comic was not referring to the serpents intangibility but rather was referring to the serpents heavenly and exalted nature. Further, Planets and stars are also referred to as "celestial bodies" and they certainly are not immaterial or imaginary. Are going to seriously try and argue that the only meaning of heavenly is imaginary or immaterial? Heck even without looking at a dictionary u should know that is false.
You didn't read my post somewhat before this.
The situations u described are in no way analogous to this one. The comic talked about thor forcefully breaking the serpents grip of earth. and hence overpowering its entire body. Further as my scans have shown the serpent body was shown as being physical and solid in multiple instances and never was it ever shown as being intangible in that situation.
Originally posted by Raoul
then use different feats. he has more than the midgard serpent.
True. But this is the only one Thor fans have to try to show that Thor is near Superman in strength. All his other feats either fall short by a mile or are invalid due to a plot device.
I'm getting tired of arguing this Midgard Serpent feat anyway. I never brought it up, someone else did. I'm was just trying to refute it.
Originally posted by h1a8
Every meaning implies something light or insubstantial. Read my post above. I'll try to get that for you though.
absolutely false. I dont know how u can assume that heavenly and celestial somehow only mean immaterial and insubstantial. It is quite ridiculous to be honest
Because by posting the scan will prove to everyone that it makes no sense for the serpent to not be in intangible form. We can clearly see how they used the context of the word.
What? this makes no sense at all. No such thing can be grasped from that scan as seen below
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/midgardserpent1.jpg
As i said above all this scan does is show the word "ethereal" which as has been explained has alternate meanings other than "intangible" or immaterial which would be far better suited to this context.
I believe this is wrong. Thor fought Fin Fang Foom and defeated him.This wasn't the time where it was disguised as the Midgard Serpent.
Thor has faced Fin Fang Foom twice (once as the Midgard Serpent).
No i have read almost all thors comics and i dont remeber anytime thor struggled to lift Fing Fang foom aside the instance where it was the midgard serpent disguised as Foom. The only other instance occured in Thor v2 issue 80 where thor talks about how he killed fing fang foom but thats all as in that comic Fing fang foom isnt even shown.
the boat provided no assistance then how can someone with 3-4 feet arms completely pull a Serpent as long as the circumference of the Earth off the planet? Try pulling a string wrapped around a basketball off by only pulling a millimeter.
lulz how u say? Cuz its a comic thats how. Trying to apply real world science to a comic in order to rationalize a particular situation even though its not supported by on panel depiction or explanation is faulty and simply doesnt fly as an arguement.
Originally posted by Mekrob
Because the comic never said that, and God only knows what handbook word language you're twisting. In fact, the comic said:
"... As the serpent of Midgard crushes the globe in its ethereal coil..."
Yes, because the serpent was crushing the Earth in its intangible coil... because intangible things do that.
Because the immaterial has no gravity. Also with magic one can even fly.
Why didn't he pass through the Earth?
How can Hulk overpower Jean Grey's psionic grip over a piece of material?
How could Thor shatter the grip of the him when he was actually intangible?
Originally posted by h1a8You get told to drop the argument, so you reply with an attempt to debate me still?
I already showed that intangible things can crush material things. See Magneto, Jedi, magical spells, etc.
Because the immaterial has no gravity. Also with magic one can even fly.
How can Hulk overpower Jean Grey's psionic grip over a piece of material?
I don't even have to respond either, since even you should see that you might as well edit this post out... to something useful.
Originally posted by Naija boyHeavenly as used in the ethereal definition (heavenly has more than one definition too) implies Celestial Spheres and not bodies. I know this because the American Heritage Dictionary's third definition of ethereal says "of the celestial spheres; heavenly". The heavenly is summarizing the meaning of celestial spheres. And looking up celestial spheres shows that it is an imaginary sphere extending from the center Earth to the stars.
absolutely false. I dont know how u can assume that heavenly and celestial somehow only mean immaterial and insubstantial. It is quite ridiculous to be honestWhat? this makes no sense at all. No such thing can be grasped from that scan as seen below
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/midgardserpent1.jpg
As i said above all this scan does is show the word "ethereal" which as has been explained has alternate meanings other than "intangible" or immaterial which would be far better suited to this context.
No i have read almost all thors comics and i dont remeber anytime thor struggled to lift Fing Fang foom aside the instance where it was the midgard serpent disguised as Foom. The only other instance occured in Thor v2 issue 80 where thor talks about how he killed fing fang foom but thats all as in that comic Fing fang foom isnt even shown.
lulz how u say? Cuz its a comic thats how. Trying to apply real world science to a comic in order to rationalize a particular situation even though its not supported by on panel depiction or explanation is faulty and simply doesnt fly as an arguement.
Also a certain amount of common sense and science has to be used in comics. Otherwise it is impossible to prove anything. Science has nothing to do with pulling a huge Serpent off a planet with 3 feet arms. Common sense does.
Originally posted by h1a8
Heavenly as used in the ethereal definition (heavenly has more than one definition too) implies Celestial Spheres and not bodies. I know this because the American Heritage Dictionary's third definition of ethereal says "of the celestial spheres; heavenly". The heavenly is summarizing the meaning of celestial spheres. And looking up celestial spheres shows that it is an [B]imaginary sphere extending from the center Earth to the stars.
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Actually that dictionary just used celestial spheres as an example of heavenly.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethereal
Here the example used is "ethereal home", Clearly the ethereal home isnt referring to imaginary but rather exalted and celestial. Same with celestial and heavenly bodies. the fact that the dictionary included the word heavenly in the definition of ethereal proves that it certainly does not only refer to imaginary things cuz heavenly is not synonymous with imaginary.
You didn't read my post somewhat before this.
I did and it contained nothing that was refuted
Originally posted by h1a8
I don't need to. The proof is that Superman WAS able to bust moons with ease before. This contradicts the Shadow moon having less durability than an ordinary moon.Doesn't matter. Everyone one else uses good feats for their characters and not feats that contradict them.
No, we base it on best AND most current feats. PC Superman had a ton of good feats
Originally posted by h1a8
I know everything about all of Newton's three laws. This is irrelevant.
If you still haven't figured out what I mean, then no you don't.
Originally posted by h1a8
The hammer itself is a plot device. I already explain that the hammer can provide more power towards a swing or throw.
FYI, everything is a plot device in comics. IMO, unless something is stated on panel as providing the main force of the blow, then the primary source of power should be the character itself.
After all, if Thor said: "'tis Mjolnir's mightiest blow!" not "'tis my mightiest blow!" then we can probably attribute his attacks to mjolnir and not Thor. :-/
Originally posted by h1a8
No. We can't apply all physics to comics. But certainly we have to apply some. Otherwise how could one know how strong or fast someone is if it isn't explicitly stated? How do you know that Thor is stronger than Namor? By the physics of the feats right?
The problem with this is that YOU have proven yourself to be biased and selective on w/c laws to apply.
And yes, we DO use feats. However, we also use comparative feats of people they've fought 1v1. Gladiator (Kallark) and Thor already fought 1v1 and Gladiator's feats already shown that he is more or less of equal strength to Supes (after all, Marvel patterned Kallark after Superman) and their strength wasn't that far apart.
Originally posted by h1a8
Also a certain amount of common sense and science has to be used in comics. Otherwise it is impossible to prove anything. Science has nothing to do with pulling a huge Serpent off a planet with 3 feet arms. Common sense does.
And pulling a planet with a rope does?
Hurray for common sense!
