^ Would she fight smarter than Sentry? Undoubtably. What would Wonder Woman actually accomplish? I dunno. Cuz you make it sound like she'd stomp World War Hulk. Did classic Juggernaut stomp World War Hulk? No. And he wasn't even as enraged as he was when fighting the rest of the Illuminati members. I hope you don't consider Wonder Woman to be well beyond a classic Juggernaut... ?
Batgirl could have thrown it before the trigger was pulled. Her ability lets her read what people are going to do momentarily before they do it. Fractional moments though.
But then while she could read the Joker's body language, it was like gibberish to her. So she may have had to wait for the shot to be fired. To soon or too late and there'd be splattered brain.
Also she was further from Joker than the distance between the Void and Sentry.
And the Sentry scan doesn't really "show" when he starts to move/fly to intercept either.
Oh and even if her feat takes slightly longer... it doesn't bode well for the "bullet feat." Moving faster than a baterang is nothing for a "top tier" to write home about when... well Batgirl moves faster than her baterangs anyway.
The take home message though is... Batgirl is awesome.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Would she fight smarter than Sentry? Undoubtably. What would Wonder Woman actually accomplish? I dunno. Cuz you make it sound like she'd stomp World War Hulk. Did classic Juggernaut stomp World War Hulk? No. And he wasn't even as enraged as he was when fighting the rest of the Illuminati members. I hope you don't consider Wonder Woman to be well beyond a classic Juggernaut... ?
Her Strength streats suggest that she is in that area. the only thing that makes classic juggernaut so uber is his ability to keep moving forward and that durability.
Originally posted by h1a8Oh I beg to differ. First off when has someone used speed on Sentry to show that he is too slow to react? I mean first off you have to prove that this is first a weakness of his before you start saying WW is faster and that she is so much faster that shell make him look slow and unable to keep up.
How do you prove someone is faster or stronger here?
You use feats. She has far the greater speed feats than he would ever have in his lifetime. It shouldn't be questioned by anyone here that WW is faster than Sentry. This is not debatable.
Originally posted by fangirl101No they dont. It has been proven over and over again that she is nowhere near Superman level and that she has to rely on skill to even have a chance of winning.
Her Strength streats suggest that she is in that area. the only thing that makes classic juggernaut so uber is his ability to keep moving forward and that durability.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotNo it wasnt.
That the one bullet feat is not as impressive all things considered. The main part of the post was about Rogue, but I couldn't be assed finding the scans, which I did now post here, and what she did is frankly imo more impressive than what Sentry did in terms of hand speed.Also if someone can move out of the path of bullets, it's quite logical that they can move into the path of bullets. Street-levelers generally don't do the latter though, because that would be silly. But the last time you brought up the bullet catch, you were informed of Iron Fist and Spider-Man doing similar apparently, so maybe it's not so silly.
Again he came to the bullet at point blank range and caught it before it hit the head. This chick just dodged gunfire meaning she evaded it only and didnt come over to the bullet and catch it. Do you realize how fast you have to be to catch a bullet fired at someone's head before it hits their head?
Originally posted by quanchi112
No they dont. It has been proven over and over again that she is nowhere near Superman level and that she has to rely on skill to even have a chance of winning.
Now how in the hell is she now where near superman's strength level when it's shown that she and superman are the one's who catch the spectre? She matches CM in hand to hand. She and Superman are the ones who have to knock back the general. She and superman are the one's who are doing battle with konvict. Where the entire rest of the league fell.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh I beg to differ. First off when has someone used speed on Sentry to show that he is too slow to react? I mean first off you have to prove that this is first a weakness of his before you start saying WW is faster and that she is so much faster that shell make him look slow and unable to keep up.
Not really. Marvel Earth has practically no speedsters. There's nobody to match him against. Silver Surfer would be the best person, since he's actually fast, even if his combat speed stinks most of the time. Now, if Sentry faced a Surfer actually using high end combat speed, and kept up with him, ok. Then I would say speed isn't really an issue for him. At least not until you get up against Superman or Flash.
Wondy is faster because she's faced actual speedsters and not only kept up, but outraced several.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No it wasnt.Again he came to the bullet at point blank range and caught it before it hit the head. This chick just dodged gunfire meaning she evaded it only and didnt come over to the bullet and catch it. Do you realize how fast you have to be to catch a bullet fired at someone's head before it hits their head?
Yeah. Superman does it everyday. 🙄 For someone who's mid-high herald like Sentry is according to you, a bullet catch isn't much of a feat. For SpiderMan or Iron Fist, hell yes, it would be a great feat.
But against someone who hit the speed force without being connected? Or keep up with Flash or Superman? Or has combat reflexes to block the Omega Effect and lasers? Waste of ****ing time. Any DC top tier with high end speed could duplicate that feat.
Hell, Superman has come from halfway around the world, just to catch bullets being shot at Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane. And it was so easy for him, he had enough time to put cotten in their ears to protect them from the sounds.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Now how in the hell is she now where near superman's strength level when it's shown that she and superman are the one's who catch the spectre? She matches CM in hand to hand. She and Superman are the ones who have to knock back the general. She and superman are the one's who are doing battle with konvict. Where the entire rest of the league fell.
She approaches his base levels but I agree she isnt his peer when hes playing serious.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
She approaches his base levels but I agree she isnt his peer when hes playing serious.
She's his peer when he's playing serious. She just isn't his equal. But there is no one in the herald leve who is superman's physical equal. NO ONE except Orion. And even then, Orion would cream puffed is Superman started using his speed.
Originally posted by quanchi112My god you are confusing. Or confused. It's like you're responding a post behind.
No it wasnt.Again he came to the bullet at point blank range and caught it before it hit the head. This chick just dodged gunfire meaning she evaded it only and didnt come over to the bullet and catch it. Do you realize how fast you have to be to catch a bullet fired at someone's head before it hits their head?
I said Rogue's catching gatling gun fire and throwing them back was a more impressive feat of handspeed. Which it is.
I wasn't referring to Batgirl's bullet dodging for the most part in that post.
But I then subsequently posted a similar feat by Batgirl, a street leveler to Sentry's. Which you've apparently ignored.
Here are mediafire links if the imageshack ones didn't work.
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=ln7m2vyxhln&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=n2zgmnmsbpo&thumb=4
*
Yes one has to be fast to intercept a bullet, as fast or maybe faster than a baterang, but if we're going to be differentiating between "combat handspeed" and "whole body movement" then you need to be the latter not the former for the Sentry feat. And being faster than a bullet for the latter is really nothing new.
*NB the man is not actually standing against the wall. That's just artistic license.
Xmarksthespot, that batarang could have been thrown well before Joker shot the gun. I'm pretty sure Sentry wasn't moving until after Void's gun had fired. Blocking a fired bullet with something (even your own body) after it's fired and catching a bullet between your fingers after it's fired require two different levels of speed, IMHO. Batgirl can maybe do the former and Cap can definitely do the former with his shield... but neither of them are doing the latter. No way.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Regarding the travel portion of it:
Xmarksthespot, that batarang could have been thrown well before Joker shot the gun. I'm pretty sure Sentry wasn't moving until after Void's gun had fired. Blocking a fired bullet with something (even your own body) after it's fired and catching a bullet between your fingers after it's fired require two different levels of speed, IMHO. Batgirl can maybe do the former and Cap can definitely do the former with his shield... but neither of them are doing the latter. No way.
Had she thrown it either too soon or too late, the man would be dead. The bullet would have passed in behind or in front of the baterang respectively. (Elaborating on my NB above, the Joker has his arm around the man a panel or so before, the man hasn't moved, and I don't think the Joker can phase).
She threw it from across a crowded room, from a distance further than between the Void and Sentry.
There's similarly no way to tell when Sentry began moving, as the trigger was being pulled, just before, just after.
And traveling slightly faster than a baterang is not something a supposed top tier in speed should be all that proud of.
Regarding the dexterity/limbspeed portion of it:
In terms of him catching the bullet between his fingers rather than blocking it, well that's based on interpretation of him showing a small cylinder of metal, not actually on panel catching it. Yes, it's not mushed as if it had impacted his invulnerable hand, but then it's also not bullet-shaped. I don't think JRJR's stylized art makes it that clear.
If one does assume Sentry caught the bullet, other top tiers have done better. Rogue has even done better.
In terms of limbspeed Wonder Woman has done better. She doesn't catch bullets or lasers/lightbeams of course, but she blocks them - 'cause it's her thing.
I'm not saying that Sentry's travel speed in general is slower than a baterang, or that his dexterity or limbspeed is lower than Batgirl's of course. But if that's the best example anyone can find for Sentry (it seems to be the only one brought up) for "combat hand speed" it's really doesn't cut it compared to what others he's put up against have done.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotErr. Not really. If she knew exactly when to throw it, she could have thrown it half a second or a full second before Joker even pulled the trigger for ti to be right in that spot. Depends on how hard she threw it. You can throw a thing later and harder and throw a thing sooner and softer and both can end up in the same place at the same time. Just think about two pitchers throwing balls. A 20 mph ball thrown and a 100 mph ball thrown can meet at the same exact point if the 100 mph pitcher waits a lil bit longer and throws his ball later in time.
Regarding the travel portion of it:
Batgirl predicts movements, ergo she can anticipate what someone's going to do momentarily before they do it. Presumably she threw the baterang right before Joker got the shot off, based upon her abilities. But I elaborated on that above already, it may not be the case since she didn't understand the Joker's body language. And "well before" is exaggeration.Had she thrown it either too soon or too late, the man would be dead. The bullet would have passed in behind or in front of the baterang respectively. (Elaborating on my NB above, the Joker has his arm around the man a panel or so before, the man hasn't moved, and I don't think the Joker can phase).
She threw it from across a crowded room, from a distance further than between the Void and Sentry.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotPretty sure the gun goes off in the second panel and Sentry's still not even in the panel. He still has to be fast enough to pluck a bullet out of the air from a point-blank shot. And it looks like he caught it between his fingers rather than with the palm of his hands and the shape of it looks like a bullet to me both when he holds it and drops it:
There's similarly no way to tell when Sentry began moving, as the trigger was being pulled, just before, just afterAnd traveling slightly faster than a baterang is not something a supposed top tier in speed should be all that proud of.
Regarding the dexterity/limbspeed portion of it:
In terms of him catching the bullet between his fingers rather than blocking it, well that's based on interpretation of him showing a small cylinder of metal, not actually on panel catching it. Yes, it's not mushed as if it had impacted his invulnerable hand, but then it's also not bullet-shaped. I don't think JRJR's stylized art makes it that clear.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotThat's fine. But by that same token, neither Batgirl's nor Cap's feats really cut it compared to what Sentry did in that scene when he catches a bullet. This vs. thread isn't solely about comparing speed and doesn't require proving that Sentry is as fast as Wonderwoman anyway. But equating Sentry's speed to the speed of a batarang is not very evenhanded: "So essentially the "bullet feat" shows Sentry can move as fast as... a baterang." 😬
If one does assume Sentry caught the bullet, other top tiers have done better. Rogue has even done better.In terms of limbspeed Wonder Woman has done better. She doesn't catch bullets or lasers/lightbeams of course, but she blocks them - 'cause it's her thing.
I'm not saying that Sentry's travel speed in general is slower than a baterang, or that his dexterity or limbspeed is lower than Batgirl's of course. But if that's the best example anyone can find for Sentry (it seems to be the only one brought up) for "combat hand speed" it's really doesn't cut it compared to what others he's put up against have done.
From Batgirl's abilities I would assume she threw it when she realized he was going to fire, and timed the strength of the throw with what she has to intercept.
I don't really expect Batgirl or Captain America's feats to fully cut it. I don't think anyone would. But sometimes they come awfully close.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that Sentry's feats do cut it, when as earlier in the thread I'm sure I've read posters say things along the lines of his physicality being superior to the likes of WW or Superman.
He doesn't really have enough to say he's faster, in either "forms" of speed.
He doesn't really have enough to say he's stronger.
He doesn't really have enough to say he's more durable to blunt force.
He doesn't have the advantage in plot device weaponry.
And he's certainly not more skilled or all that tactical.
At best I would say he may approach her established level or Superman's or Black Adam's or Captain Marvel's, not vice versa which seems to be the claim people make in most of those threads.
So I've no idea why anyone would give him 10/10 (not that you did, just in general.)
