Pein and Kisame vs. Kenpachi Zaraki

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. No, it is me looking at the respective verses and realising which is logically more powerful and not being an idiot. 🙂 And btw, I meant that with great offense.

2. No he is not.

3. They mean nothing, and Jiraiya could not beat Kenny.

4. You say that like it means anything. Other than the mini black hole, all he can do is push and pull(and pray to God he does not decide to pull Kenny to him), and it has a lag time of 5 seconds, which would be more than enough time for Kenny to clear the distance.

5. Yeah, considering he could kill all of Pain's bodies in one swipe. 🙂

Yep, with your fanboyish bias clouding your judgement 🙂

No point in arguing with you about that, even if he isn't enough according to you, the other bodies will be able to provide some support and that's enough😐.

Right, who's the strongest opponent that Kenny has beaten? An espada that was number 5, while that is a feat, it means nothing.
Jiraiya was one of the Sannin 😐, quite possibly the strongest out of those three, that's a feat in itself...Whether Jiraiya is able to beat Kenpachi or not is moot, I'm not basing it on ABC, I'm basing it on feats.

5 seconds? For Kenpachi? Kenpachi isn't that fast. Also, don't forget, Pain isn't a statue. He can repel objects as well.

That's not a complete long range attack FYI, the building was pretty close when he cut it...and don't the bodies have the ability to just jump out of the way 😐

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yep, with your fanboyish bias clouding your judgement 🙂

No point in arguing with you about that, even if he isn't enough according to you, the other bodies will be able to provide some support and that's enough😐.

Right, who's the strongest opponent that Kenny has beaten? An espada that was number 5, while that is a feat, [b]it means nothing.
Jiraiya was one of the Sannin 😐, quite possibly the strongest out of those three, that's a feat in itself...Whether Jiraiya is able to beat Kenpachi or not is moot, I'm not basing it on ABC, I'm basing it on feats.

5 seconds? For Kenpachi? Kenpachi isn't that fast. Also, don't forget, Pain isn't a statue. He can repel objects as well.

That's not a complete long range attack FYI, the building was pretty close when he cut it...and don't the bodies have the ability to just jump out of the way 😐 [/B]

2. The other bodies are fodder.

3. Sannin is a title jack. It is not a feat. Jiraiya has not shit over Kenpachi or Noitora. Those are not feats, beating someone is not a feat.

4. Kenpachi is easily fast enough as his fight with Noitora shows, clearing hundreds of feet in an instant. Pain can't repel objects when he just used the power, hence the five second rule. Oh, and btw, just because it can repel giant Toads, does not mean it will have the same effect on Kenny, who is much stronger and more durable than them.

5. Never said it was jack. Jump out of the way? They are not fast enough I'm afraid.

No symmetric, I don't count filler as canon, just the manga and the anime parts that follow the manga.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. No you see, Bleachers have power, strength, durability, and speed over Naruto. If you're too much of an idiot to see that, not my problem.

2. The other bodies are fodder.

3. Sannin is a title jack. It is not a feat. Jiraiya has not shit over Kenpachi or Noitora. Those are not feats, beating someone is not a feat.

4. Kenpachi is easily fast enough as his fight with Noitora shows, clearing hundreds of feet in an instant. Pain can't repel objects when he just used the power, hence the five second rule. Oh, and btw, just because it can repel giant Toads, does not mean it will have the same effect on Kenny, who is much stronger and more durable than them.

5. Never said it was jack. Jump out of the way? They are not fast enough I'm afraid.

Well, see that's the thing about idiots, they think that others are idiotic as well. Saying one verse is inherently stronger or more powerful than another is moronic, something you seem to be demonstrating a lot lately.

Fodder yes, but they are also enough to give someone like Kenpachi, trouble.

Considering they got the title after surviving against another powerful ninja is a feat. I could easily say that Kenpachi doesn't hold a candle to Jiraiya, but that would demonstrate stupidity of your level. Beating Jiraiya was a feat. If you consider beating someone not equal to a feat, then holding his own against Tosen and Komamura is not a feat.

So you think Kenpachi could overpower a toad around 50 times bigger than him, just with strength? My my. Durability would play no factor when it comes to Shinra tensei's repelling factor. With Chibaku, yes, not with Shinra's repelling factor though.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. Nah.

2. Yeah, it does, they are able to use a sword in combat efficiently, making them good at fighting.

3. You are trying to say Soul Society buildings<Normal buildings, which is stupid.

It makes them capable with a sword. I dont think I can make you understand that, so I'll just move on.

I just remember that Soul Society's buildings are actually made up of Reiatsu. I'm not saying its fact, but I believe that someone with enough reaitsu (for example: kenpachi) could shred a wall in soul society with focused spirit pressure. I mean, even ishida, who has NOWHERE NEAR the amount of power of Kenpachi was still able to absorb the buildings around him by breaking down their reiatsu. This is just me asking the opinions of other people.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Kenpachi would kill Six Tailed Naruto though.

So I cannot see your point.

naw

that's way wrong dude.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, see that's the thing about idiots, they think that others are idiotic as well. Saying one verse is inherently stronger or more powerful than another is moronic, something you seem to be demonstrating a lot lately.

Fodder yes, but they are also enough to give someone like Kenpachi, trouble.

Considering they got the title after surviving against another powerful ninja is a feat. I could easily say that Kenpachi doesn't hold a candle to Jiraiya, but that would demonstrate stupidity of your level. Beating Jiraiya was a feat. If you consider beating someone not equal to a feat, then holding his own against Tosen and Komamura is not a feat.

So you think Kenpachi could overpower a toad around 50 times bigger than him, just with strength? My my. Durability would play no factor when it comes to Shinra tensei's repelling factor. With Chibaku, yes, not with Shinra's repelling factor though.

2. Why? Absorbing Pain can absorb shit. Kenny has no energy attacks, he gets cut in half with a sword. Hell Pain can grab people and judge them, if he tries to grab Kenny, he dies, being weaker and what-not. Animal Pain's summons, well, the same thing would happen to them as would happen to a Menos Gillian, and other than her summons, she is fodder. The Pain that fvcks with souls, Kenny already is a soul, and is fodder like the rest. Asura Pain...Well Asura Pain is quite simply a glass cannon, he can't take a hit for shit. Yahiko is the only threat.

3. It is what they do in the fight that is the feat my friend, not winning the fight itself. Kenny blocked both Tosen's and Komamura's blades single-handedly, Komamura tossed a Fraccion as large as a Skyscraper, so that is a strength feat for Kenny.

4. He has overpowered stronger. Strength would factor into Shinra Tensei's repel.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
It is what they do in the fight that is the feat my friend, not winning the fight itself. Kenny blocked both Tosen's and Komamura's blades single-handedly, Komamura tossed a Fraccion as large as a Skyscraper, so that is a strength feat for Kenny.

Komamura tossing the fraccion is NOT a feat for Kenpachi.

This feat happened AFTER Kenpachi crossed swords with Sajin. In the time spent between those two battles ( which was quite a long time indeed) Sajin could have obviously gotten stronger.

Kenpachi rapes this hard. Seriously anyone who tries to ignore his casual skyscraper cutting feats are dense in the head. He overpowered Koma(Thus making him stonger than the guy).and Komamura was able to throw around someone the size Po without trouble in base form.(that is without shikai or bankai). And god forbid if were to bring kendo into this.

Oh and sword skills means shit when your opponent outclasses you in speed, strength and durability so bad it's not even funny. Majin Fat Buu doesn't seem like his a very well-trained professional in martial arts or any style of fighting, that must mean he will get his ass handed to him by Rock Lee, who is so skilled with his Taijutsu amirite?

Originally posted by Urban Ninja
Majin Fat Buu doesn't seem like his a very well-trained professional in martial arts or any style of fighting, that must mean he will get his ass handed to him by Rock Lee, who is so skilled with his Taijutsu amirite?

That's a horrible example.

Originally posted by Quincy
That's a horrible example.

Too bad that's what the idiocy here in this discussion calls for.

Originally posted by Urban Ninja
Komamura was able to throw around someone the size Po without trouble in base form.(that is without shikai or bankai). And god forbid if were to bring kendo into this.

Base form...so his Shikai (as in, having your SWORD transform)increases your strength? And his Bankai (which summons a giant suit of armor) increases his own physical strength exponentially.

Originally posted by Urban Ninja
Too bad that's what the idiocy here in this discussion calls for.

I think Rock Lee is a much better fighter than Majin Boo.

But I'm not saying he can beat him. Majin Boo can regenerate, and is capable of blowing up planets. But if Majin Boo had normal strength, then yes, Lee would rip his ass open with his amazing martial arts talent.

That's not the basis of my argument of why Pein and Kisame would beat Kenpachi, but just fact that the Naruto characters are very talented at the actual art of fighting. Bleach just has powerful sword swings.

I mean honestly, if you think Rock Lee would lose to Ichigo in a fist fight, you might actually be mentally retarded.

Vaizard Ichigo punches his head off. No contest.

Duhhh-Datds guust loogicc innit?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Vaizard Ichigo punches his head off. No contest.

Duhhh-Datds guust loogicc innit?

Oh right sorry I forgot about that part in Bleach where we see Ichigo fight someone without a sword and he's capable of punching the head off of a human being.

Originally posted by Quincy
I just remember that Soul Society's buildings are actually made up of Reiatsu. I'm not saying its fact, but I believe that someone with enough reaitsu (for example: kenpachi) could shred a wall in soul society with focused spirit pressure. I mean, even ishida, who has NOWHERE NEAR the amount of power of Kenpachi was still able to absorb the buildings around him by breaking down their reiatsu. This is just me asking the opinions of other people.

The building are made of reiatsu but there's no evidence that they are less durable than normal buildings. Ishida's feat is entirely an artifact of his powers, much like the way Magneto would be able to tear apart a city made a steel even though he would be hard pressed to do the same to a forest.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The building are made of reiatsu but there's no evidence that they are less durable than normal buildings. Ishida's feat is entirely an artifact of his powers, much like the way Magneto would be able to tear apart a city made a steel even though he would be hard pressed to do the same to a forest.

Makes sense 👆

But you know what I was getting at. I think at this point I'm more debating about how the fighters in Naruto are more talented then those in Bleach than I am about Kenpachi vs Kisame and Pein.

Oh right sorry I forgot about that part in Bleach where we see Ichigo fight someone without a sword and he's capable of punching the head off of a human being.

Luckily you remembered that part when he beats 3 vice-captians without his sword, attacking too fast for them to react and punching through that one giant mace Zanpakto like it's tissue paper, right?

Well then I'll forgive you.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Luckily you remembered that part when he beats 3 vice-captians without his sword, attacking too fast for them to react and punching through that one giant mace Zanpakto like it's tissue paper, right?

Well then I'll forgive you.

Does he really punch through a mace?

That'd change my whole argument then.

Yup, Chapter 152 'Speed Phantom' page 14. He's also still in Shikai when he does this so just imagine what Vaizard could do.

Originally posted by Quincy
Does he really punch through a mace?

That'd change my whole argument then.

Yeah, the fat guy's mace.

Definitely not something Gai could do, and Kisame's clone wasn't even close to equal his strength. So there's no way Kisame can.

Originally posted by Quincy
Base form...so his Shikai (as in, having your SWORD transform)increases your strength? And his Bankai (which summons a giant suit of armor) increases his own physical strength exponentially.

I think Rock Lee is a much better fighter than Majin Boo.

But I'm not saying he can beat him. Majin Boo can regenerate, and is capable of blowing up planets. But if Majin Boo had normal strength, then yes, Lee would rip his ass open with his amazing martial arts talent.

That's not the basis of my argument of why Pein and Kisame would beat Kenpachi, but just fact that the Naruto characters are very talented at the actual art of fighting. Bleach just has powerful sword swings.

I mean honestly, if you think Rock Lee would lose to Ichigo in a fist fight, you might actually be mentally retarded.

1. I'd expect his armour to be just a much stronger version of himself(what do you expect it to do? shoot lasers?) and using bankai would mean letting the armour do the throwing. btw Kenpachi did take on Komamura's Bankai PATCHED.

2.Except Zaraki totally outcalsses both those characters in strength and power so bad it's not funny.

3. Them being talented at fighting doesn't overcome the MASSIVE gap in power. Just like how Bruce Lee isn't gonna beat Nnoitra how ever good he is at martial arts (call it a bad example if you want)

4. Yes Rock Lee is the more talented fistfighter. And although there's no way of knowing how good a fistfighter Ichigo is, we do know that he possess strength enough to thrash Rock Lee in any sort of real confrontation(not just a pure fist fight). You must be mentally retarded if you don't see how massive the defference in power and speed is between these two characters.

So overall, Naruto characters might be more talented in their skills(though not always the case though probably in this case it is) but that alone is not nearly enough at all to overcome the gap in physical abilites.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. And why is that? Would it be idiotic to say that the DBZverse or Tenchiverse is stronger than Naruto then? Certain verses are more powerful than others moron.

2. Why? Absorbing Pain can absorb shit. Kenny has no energy attacks, he gets cut in half with a sword. Hell Pain can grab people and judge them, if he tries to grab Kenny, he dies, being weaker and what-not. Animal Pain's summons, well, the same thing would happen to them as would happen to a Menos Gillian, and other than her summons, she is fodder. The Pain that fvcks with souls, Kenny already is a soul, and is fodder like the rest. Asura Pain...Well Asura Pain is quite simply a glass cannon, he can't take a hit for shit. Yahiko is the only threat.

3. It is what they do in the fight that is the feat my friend, not winning the fight itself. Kenny blocked both Tosen's and Komamura's blades single-handedly, Komamura tossed a Fraccion as large as a Skyscraper, so that is a strength feat for Kenny.

4. He has overpowered stronger. Strength would factor into Shinra Tensei's repel.

it's been over a week, and I'm too lazy at the moment to reply in any of the versus threads I've posted in, so I propose we agree to disagree.

And the DBverse is a given, they did have planet busting feats, so point noted...but imo feats in the Narutoverse & Bleachverse are pretty much equal in terms of scale