Pain vs Akatsuki and the Sannin · Anime 'Versus' Forum

Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Originally posted by Naija boy
The point was irrelevant. Pain saying that if Jiraiya used new his secret (new were nagato was) he would would have won has no basis here as nagato is not even in the scenario and none of them will know his whereabouts.

Do you skip over sentences or something? I never said it was a point. I said it was a fact. If knowing the secret is enough to beat him, chances are that having a lot of the top fighters in the Naruto verse is enough.
If Nagato's not in this scenario, who the heck is controlling the bodies exactly? 🤨

Originally posted by Naija boy
They cant move out of range because of how wide its range is. Also it attracts things towards the ball so even when they are trying to move out of range they will be drawn in and crushed.

What if some characters are already out of range? Besides, the ball doesn't seem to take effect at least until it reaches the air 😕

Originally posted by Naija boy
Pain has shown good resistance to genjutusu (breaking out of the frogs sages ultimate genjutsu) as well as having some form of genjutsu himself. Its questionable if Tsukuyumi will work on him at all. Also the Pain bodies are just puppets, with nagato controlling their chakra flow, he could easily stop/restart it etc in order to stop the genjutsu. As for amaterasu, there are six Pain bodies which can be revived continuously. As long as Itachi does not hit the reviving Pain (he has no way of knowing which one it is) the pain bodies can be revived. also if itachi tries to use amaterasu or Tsukuyumi he is making himself vulnerable for the rest of the fight as he will be greatly weakened.

He never broke out of the genjutsu, read the chapter again. The fact that you think Tsukiyomi might not have an effect is laughable.

[QUOTE=11668014]Originally posted by Naija boy The main thing here is that Pain can oneshot alot of members of the team simultaneously with a fairly powerful shinra tensei and kill evryone on the team with chibaku tensei. His ability to stay out of range of most of their attacks also reduces the likelyhood of him being hit at all.

Shinra cannot one shot a lot of the members, unless for some reason they are sticking to each other like velcro.
Chibaku's a given one shot against Sasori, and a few others. Also, Deva Path doesn't use Chibaku unless the other bodies are down, unless the other bodies are somehow resistant to gravity. That rules out Chibaku being used at the beginning.
He can only stay out of range for so long, many of the fighters have the ability to reach him.

And one other factor that no one seems to take in is that these guys can also work as a team and work strategically towards bringing down Pain. If Naija had said that these guys couldn't work together, then that would mean Pain takes the majority.

yungz22 In shrouded judgement

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Do you skip over sentences or something? I never said it was a point. I said it was a fact. If knowing the secret is enough to beat him, chances are that having a lot of the top fighters in the Naruto verse is enough.
If Nagato's not in this scenario, who the heck is controlling the bodies exactly? 🤨
What if some characters are already out of range? Besides, the ball doesn't seem to take effect at least until it reaches the air 😕
He never broke out of the genjutsu, read the chapter again. The fact that you think Tsukiyomi might not have an effect is laughable.
[QUOTE=11668014]Originally posted by Naija boy The main thing here is that Pain can oneshot alot of members of the team simultaneously with a fairly powerful shinra tensei and kill evryone on the team with chibaku tensei. His ability to stay out of range of most of their attacks also reduces the likelyhood of him being hit at all.
Shinra cannot one shot a lot of the members, unless for some reason they are sticking to each other like velcro.
Chibaku's a given one shot against Sasori, and a few others. Also, Deva Path doesn't use Chibaku unless the other bodies are down, unless the other bodies are somehow resistant to gravity. That rules out Chibaku being used at the beginning.
He can only stay out of range for so long, many of the fighters have the ability to reach him.
And one other factor that no one seems to take in is that these guys can also work as a team and work strategically towards bringing down Pain. If Naija had said that these guys couldn't work together, then that would mean Pain takes the majority.

you are exactly right. Deidara, Jiraiya, Oro have shown very good analytical skills

Naija boy Senior Member

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Do you skip over sentences or something? I never said it was a point. I said it was a fact. If knowing the secret is enough to beat him, chances are that having a lot of the top fighters in the Naruto verse is enough.
If Nagato's not in this scenario, who the heck is controlling the bodies exactly? 🤨

lulz.No i didnt skip over anything. Ur reasoning simply makes absolutely no sense. Knowing the secret is enough to beat precisely him because it would circumvent the need to actually fight the pain bodies and would focus on destroying the single weak controller who is nagato. How the hell do u relate that to the top fighters being able to defeat Pain? The events are in no way mutually inclusive. The one enabling factor in the Jiraiya incident was the lack of need to actually fight Pains bodies. And now u want to use that as a premise for this team defeating Pain when they would actually need to fight him? Retarded.

Further Nagato wont be in the battlefield. So hence he IS NOT in this scenario. He will be controlling the Pains from and outside location just like he does in the manga. In addition the combatants will have NO knowledge of nagato's existence as the controller of the bodies.

What if some characters are already out of range? Besides, the ball doesn't seem to take effect at least until it reaches the air confused

How can some characters already be out of range? Given the size of the regular KMC battlefield is fixed, with .5km separating the characters, They will be unable to get out of range of the attack without battle field removing themselves which would constitue a Pain victory.

The fact that you think Tsukiyomi might not have an effect is laughable.

Tsukuyumi is a genjutsu and like all genjutsu it is based on chakra control. Pain bodies are simply puppets of nagatos in which he regulates their chakra thru chakra transmitters. If nagato cuts off the chakra flow to any of the bodies their is nothing for the genjutsu to work on. Further itachi wont even be able to get the genjutsu on Yahiko pain who will be way above them and far out of range of Tsukuyumi. Not only that but if he uses Tsukuyumi at all in that match it will have a far more adverse effect on him than Pain as any of the Pain bodies can be easily revived while Itachi will be greatly weakened and even more vulnerable for the rest of the fight.

Shinra cannot one shot a lot of the members, unless for some reason they are sticking to each other like velcro.
Chibaku's a given one shot against Sasori, and a few others. Also, Deva Path doesn't use Chibaku unless the other bodies are down, unless the other bodies are somehow resistant to gravity. That rules out Chibaku being used at the beginning.
He can only stay out of range for so long, many of the fighters have the a bility to reach him.

lolwut? Shinra was able to level the village of konoha. It has a very wide range. The distance between combatant on KMC is .5 kilometres well within the within its range. Pain wont have to use a Shinra tensei even close to the level he need to level the village in order to oneshot alot of this team. They dont need to be close to each other as its wide range will enable it to get any of them in different places on the battle field. Moreover, i was just throwing out chibaku tensei as one sure fire way of pain winning. Even if he doesnt use at the beginning of the fight its a way to takes the team out undoubtedly. Also, each of the pain bodies are just puppets and hence are not truly important. At the very worst they can be revived. Pain can stay well out of range of [I]their[/I} attacks but they cant stay out of range of [i]his[i]. He wont even need to come into their limited range to affect them.

And one other factor that no one seems to take in is that these guys can also work as a team and work strategically towards bringing down Pain. If Naija had said that these guys couldn't work together, then that would mean Pain takes the majority.

Yes they can work together and hence this not a stomp for either side. However Pain still has numerous advantages which if used properly can give him the win.

Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Originally posted by Naija boy
lulz.No i didnt skip over anything. Ur reasoning simply makes absolutely no sense. Knowing the secret is enough to beat precisely him because it would circumvent the need to actually fight the pain bodies and would focus on destroying the single weak controller who is nagato. How the hell do u relate that to the top fighters being able to defeat Pain? The events are in no way mutually inclusive. The one enabling factor in the Jiraiya incident was the [B]lack of need to actually fight Pains bodies. And now u want to use that as a premise for this team defeating Pain when they would actually need to fight him? Retarded.
Further Nagato wont be in the battlefield. So hence he IS NOT in this scenario. He will be controlling the Pains from and outside location just like he does in the manga. In addition the combatants will have NO knowledge of nagato's existence as the controller of the bodies.
How can some characters already be out of range? Given the size of the regular KMC battlefield is fixed, with .5km separating the characters, They will be unable to get out of range of the attack without battle field removing themselves which would constitue a Pain victory.
Tsukuyumi is a genjutsu and like all genjutsu it is based on chakra control. Pain bodies are simply puppets of nagatos in which he regulates their chakra thru chakra transmitters. If nagato cuts off the chakra flow to any of the bodies their is nothing for the genjutsu to work on. Further itachi wont even be able to get the genjutsu on Yahiko pain who will be way above them and far out of range of Tsukuyumi. Not only that but if he uses Tsukuyumi at all in that match it will have a far more adverse effect on him than Pain as any of the Pain bodies can be easily revived while Itachi will be greatly weakened and even more vulnerable for the rest of the fight.
lolwut? Shinra was able to level the village of konoha. It has a very wide range. The distance between combatant on KMC is .5 kilometres well within the within its range. Pain wont have to use a Shinra tensei even close to the level he need to level the village in order to oneshot alot of this team. They dont need to be close to each other as its wide range will enable it to get any of them in different places on the battle field. Moreover, i was just throwing out chibaku tensei as one sure fire way of pain winning. Even if he doesnt use at the beginning of the fight its a way to takes the team out undoubtedly. Also, each of the pain bodies are just puppets and hence are not truly important. At the very worst they can be revived. Pain can stay well out of range of [I]their[/I} attacks but they cant stay out of range of [i]his[i]. He wont even need to come into their limited range to affect them.
Yes they can work together and hence this not a stomp for either side. However Pain still has numerous advantages which if used properly can give him the win. [/B]

Heh, I'm not going to respond to such a long post >_>...I concede defeat on that basis >_>
And I misunderstood when you said Nagato was not in the scenario, I apologize. The 0.5 km thing, why doesn't it apply to the vertical range?

Naija boy Senior Member

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Heh, I'm not going to respond to such a long post >_>...I concede defeat on that basis >_>
And I misunderstood when you said Nagato was not in the scenario, I apologize. The 0.5 km thing, why doesn't it apply to the vertical range?

Well i didnt make the rule so i dont know. But its has to do with a horizontal distance of .5 kilometres within the the combatants line of site.

King Kandy Senior Member

I think that's the STARTING distance, not the limit.

Naija boy Senior Member

Originally posted by King Kandy
I think that's the STARTING distance, not the limit.

Hmm, I always assumed that those were the boundaries hence thats were they start from.

Still just to make things clear they fight in an open 10 acre field.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Just a question about the narrative . . .

If Pein is more powerful than his entire organization combined, why did he bother forming the Akatsuki?

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Just a question about the narrative . . .
If Pein is more powerful than his entire organization combined, why did he bother forming the Akatsuki?

He didn't Madara is the creator of Akatsuki. Pein is just the figurehead of it. The one everybody except the living Uchiha, Konan, and Nagato think created Akatsuki. Plus he needs so many people to do the extraction jutsu. Also maybe Madara doesn't know his true power. Or maybe Madara thinks his secret, if ever found out, would be a huge weakness and so that it doesn't use some of the strongest people he can find even if they are weaker than Pein. Then their is the whole leaders of evil groups are usually much more powerful than their followers. Not always sure but.

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Just a question about the narrative . . .
If Pein is more powerful than his entire organization combined, why did he bother forming the Akatsuki?

They have unique abilities that are very useful in fights other than this one.

yungz22 In shrouded judgement

Originally posted by Naija boy
lulz.No i didnt skip over anything. Ur reasoning simply makes absolutely no sense. Knowing the secret is enough to beat precisely him because it would circumvent the need to actually fight the pain bodies and would focus on destroying the single weak controller who is nagato. How the hell do u relate that to the top fighters being able to defeat Pain? The events are in no way mutually inclusive. The one enabling factor in the Jiraiya incident was the [B]lack of need to actually fight Pains bodies. And now u want to use that as a premise for this team defeating Pain when they would actually need to fight him? Retarded.
Further Nagato wont be in the battlefield. So hence he IS NOT in this scenario. He will be controlling the Pains from and outside location just like he does in the manga. In addition the combatants will have NO knowledge of nagato's existence as the controller of the bodies.
How can some characters already be out of range? Given the size of the regular KMC battlefield is fixed, with .5km separating the characters, They will be unable to get out of range of the attack without battle field removing themselves which would constitue a Pain victory.
Tsukuyumi is a genjutsu and like all genjutsu it is based on chakra control. Pain bodies are simply puppets of nagatos in which he regulates their chakra thru chakra transmitters. If nagato cuts off the chakra flow to any of the bodies their is nothing for the genjutsu to work on. Further itachi wont even be able to get the genjutsu on Yahiko pain who will be way above them and far out of range of Tsukuyumi. Not only that but if he uses Tsukuyumi at all in that match it will have a far more adverse effect on him than Pain as any of the Pain bodies can be easily revived while Itachi will be greatly weakened and even more vulnerable for the rest of the fight.
lolwut? Shinra was able to level the village of konoha. It has a very wide range. The distance between combatant on KMC is .5 kilometres well within the within its range. Pain wont have to use a Shinra tensei even close to the level he need to level the village in order to oneshot alot of this team. They dont need to be close to each other as its wide range will enable it to get any of them in different places on the battle field. Moreover, i was just throwing out chibaku tensei as one sure fire way of pain winning. Even if he doesnt use at the beginning of the fight its a way to takes the team out undoubtedly. Also, each of the pain bodies are just puppets and hence are not truly important. At the very worst they can be revived. Pain can stay well out of range of [I]their[/I} attacks but they cant stay out of range of [i]his[i]. He wont even need to come into their limited range to affect them.
Yes they can work together and hence this not a stomp for either side. However Pain still has numerous advantages which if used properly can give him the win. [/B]

you keep talking about Pein flying When have you seen pein just strat flying during a fight or at the begining of the fight only time you see him flying is when he did the huge Shinra Tensei. Also Tsunade was right in the middle of that attack and she wasnt taken out so it's not a one hit kill. Each of peins bodies except God realm can easily be defeated in a 1v1 so all they have to do is dispatch of them and then gang up on God realm who by the way doesnt fight unless his teammates have been defeated.

Also you fail to see that God realm has no real speed feats so Itachi should have no problem burning him with Amaterasu. Also he could do that during one of God's intervals leavin God defenseless

Naija boy Senior Member

Originally posted by yungz22
you keep talking about Pein flying When have you seen pein just strat flying during a fight or at the begining of the fight only time you see him flying is when he did the huge Shinra Tensei. Also Tsunade was right in the middle of that attack and she wasnt taken out so it's not a one hit kill. Each of peins bodies except God realm can easily be defeated in a 1v1 so all they have to do is dispatch of them and then gang up on God realm who by the way doesnt fight unless his teammates have been defeated.
Also you fail to see that God realm has no real speed feats so Itachi should have no problem burning him with Amaterasu. Also he could do that during one of God's intervals leavin God defenseless

Bloodlust is on and the characters will be doing whatever they can to kill their opponents and fighting to the best of their abilities. Tsunade had to used her stored up chakra to protect all the villagers so it only makes sense that she protected herself as well. An attack that can oneshot gamabunta and his crew will kill any human in naruto that isnt immortal in some way. In regards to pain not fighting until his bodies have been defeated, he was fighting kakashi ((together with Robot pain)while his other bodies were rampaging thru konoha and and was fighting naruto while absorbing Pain was still alive. Regardless they will be fighting to the best of their abilities here.

Itachi is one of those who will get oneshotted by shinra tensei. If he gets amatarasu off before pain uses shinra tensei, it will be detrimental to him as Pain will dispel it and Itachi would be drastically weaker.

King Kandy Senior Member

Even if he is hit with Amaterasu all he needs to do is wait five seconds and then get it off him. Weaker people have survived Amaterasu that long. Or he could fly to the absorbing Pain and have it off in a flash.

The Red Senior Member

Originally posted by Naija boy
Pein vs akatsuki and the Sannin.
Pein vs
Deidara
Itachi
Zetsu
Hidan
Kakuzu
Sasori
Kisame
Jiraiya
Tsunade
Orochimaru
Who wins? Bloodlust is on and the characters dont know about nagato or anything like that.

Pein specifically said that if Jiraiya new the secret, he would have easily defeated Pain with no trouble. He obviously figured out that they were being controlled like puppets. While the others fought he would have figured it out and go **** Nagato up. I give it to team Akatsuki and the Sannin.

Csdabest Senior Member

Originally posted by King Kandy
Even if he is hit with Amaterasu all he needs to do is wait five seconds and then get it off him. Weaker people have survived Amaterasu that long. Or he could fly to the absorbing Pain and have it off in a flash.

the damage would already be done. And it blows what around him not on him. If so it would have bloown off his clothes a long time ago

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by Csdabest
the damage would already be done. And it blows what around him not on him. If so it would have bloown off his clothes a long time ago

That depends. He may be able to dodge it, and if he isn't hit square on it seems to have much less of an effect. And if Karin was able to survive an indirect hit, a dead body of Pein's could survive to get to Absorbing Pein and get him to absorb it off...and be perfectly fine as it wouldn't hurt him at all.

Urban Ninja Member

Pain gets overwhelmed, too many high tiers of Narutoverse here.

King Kandy Senior Member

Originally posted by Csdabest
the damage would already be done. And it blows what around him not on him. If so it would have bloown off his clothes a long time ago

He can choose what things to repel.

yungz22 In shrouded judgement

Originally posted by Naija boy
Bloodlust is on and the characters will be doing whatever they can to kill their opponents and fighting to the best of their abilities. Tsunade had to used her stored up chakra to protect all the villagers so it only makes sense that she protected herself as well. An attack that can oneshot gamabunta and his crew will kill any human in naruto that isnt immortal in some way. In regards to pain not fighting until his bodies have been defeated, he was fighting kakashi ((together with Robot pain)while his other bodies were rampaging thru konoha and and was fighting naruto while absorbing Pain was still alive. Regardless they will be fighting to the best of their abilities here.
Itachi is one of those who will get oneshotted by shinra tensei. If he gets amatarasu off before pain uses shinra tensei, it will be detrimental to him as Pain will dispel it and Itachi would be drastically weaker.

OK if pein uses the big shinra tensei tsunade can do the same thing to protect her teamates. then as a result God realm would be defeated because after dong an attack like that he has a longer recharge time.

Symmetric Chaos Fractal King

Originally posted by yungz22
OK if pein uses the big shinra tensei tsunade can do the same thing to protect her teamates. then as a result God realm would be defeated because after dong an attack like that he has a longer recharge time.

Or he could just do a couple smaller ones and use the other bodies' powers to stall for time when recharging.

Worse, if he opens with the massive Shinra Tensei it would kill them all because to protect everyone else Tsunade had to summon her slug and then tell it to spread out a channel her power for healing. She certainly wouldn't have time to do that.