Originally posted by Master Hanlol sorry to disappoint you. I'll try to hold myself to your awesome standards from now on.
Try opening your brain up and backing your accusations with logical arguments rather than cute little witticisms, then. Because your actual master debating skills disappoint me....or, you can just spread your legs.
Hey, if you're going to insinuate ridiculous schemes from accidental posts and harmless responses to the subject matter, at least make your rebuttals something other than:
"lolz your cute, my post has no contentions or evidence, but it's funny harhar!"
Point number 2: don't shift your position halfway through a debate, and certainly do not apply the same logic that you just denigrated your opponent for employing. This is called "hypocrisy".
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That's Master Han's tips for the day. Now, go practice your master debating.
Reality Check
Hewhoknowsall:
You really gave the Empire a major Handicap on this thread
okay, first of all let's remove the handicaps, the movie factors, and the EU ones.
we go to the reality of War.
The Empire is a major Superpower in the Star wars Universe. they got Star Destroyers, heavy walkers etc.
first your logic seems unfavourable, why? how did the Empire manage to land on Earth without Starships at all? did they teleport? second, the Empire will not go anywhere without their Star Destroyers as these ships are the symbol of their power.
okay let's go to the Conventional type of Warfare.
we got advance technology. not as advance as the Empire but we can at least keep up with them. we could be compare to the Rebels minus the blaster technology. why did I say this? you can say that's impossible, no.
we have the home court advantage.
we know our planet better than them.
take Endor for example. the Empire didn't even bother know the planet, that's why the Ewoks beat them. the Ewoks knew the forest better than them. even with superior Technology, the Empire is to proud to even use it to their advantage.
it can happen here as well.
with the AT-ATs involved in combat, we simply have no chance of winning without air support. the AT-AT's cannons can take out an entire tank division at long range. (Let's not include the movie factor here, in fact the Rebel turrets and their shield generator is destroyed from a distance by Colonel Veers.)
their is weakness on them too.
like I said, we can deal with them with Air support. 3 heavy jet bombers armed with penetration bombs, or high explosive ones can deal with the AT-AT. Bunker busters bombs worked too. now if your saying they have thick armor for those, we can simply concentrate firepower on one side of the walker until it topples over to its side. Viola! we don't even need cable strategy to deal with them. has anyone thought of this?
my money goes to the bunker buster bombs, they are design to penetrate bunkers several feet below the ground. im sure it is more than enough to pierce the armor of the AT-AT.
3 A-10 thunderbolt IIs can topple the AT-ATs with air to ground missiles concentrated on the head or the body. provided that they do not have a TIE air cover.
next is the AT-ST
as the name suggest, All Terrain SCOUT Transport. the walkers are meant for recon missions not a direct warfare. they mostly used in patrol and scouting missions, but the movie protrayed them as these frontline walkers. so we are reality. they are armoured but they not too armoured. a RPG and other anti-tank missile launchers can still take it out if it is hit on the legs of the back. the head maybe armoured but legs are not, physics is present here. the Empire will not be too stupid to give armor on the legs, this walker is design for speed as well not just firepower. a tank cannon can still make it topple or can still pierce its armor, tanks of today has armor piercing shells that can pierce several millimeters of slope armor.
next is the stormtroopers
you say they always miss. but let me tell you, that's ONLY in the bigscreen. they just making the heroes look good in the movies.
in reality as they say, elite. they will never miss a mark. they can go head to head with Earth modern armies. bullets and blasters. their armor is not invincible too, they are plastoids, in other words, they are their versions of hard plastic; bullets can pierce hard plastics. so this will be the first time that their white armor will be stain by their own blood.
an as usual, they are also vulnerable to grenades, so expect a flying stormtrooper arm anytime soon.
of course their blasters can piece kevlar no doubt but we can capture some of these blasters and reverse engineer them or simply use them. given our nature of technology, I'd say we will reverse engineer their weapons to develop our own.
their weapon may be slow on the rate of fire compared to us, but they also have repeater blasters, their equivalent to the machine guns, and their blasters can toggle to rapid fire but prone to overheat.
let's not forget they are variation of Stormtroopers, they have scout troopers, heavy troopers, dark troopers, Imperial Snipers, Shock troopers, etc. each with its own specialization. sure they have armor that says "Here I am and shoot me" but they have the numbers and technology to find and kill the enemy before they are found. they got Viper Probe, scout troopers that have speeder bikes that is ten times faster than a Ferrari.
in speaking traveling overseas, they don't need sea ferrying ships, the got repulsor technology to transport troops across ANY terrain. if that doesn't enough, they can call in transports and even their Star Destroyers to transport them.
Vader isn't even Included here yet.
lets go to the Air Power
TIE are not that stupid as the movie suggest. they are experience pilots, the Empire screen them from day 1 in their bootcamp. Vader sometimes oversees their training.
sure are jets have superiority in a dog fight, but once the Empire know of its limits, they will exploit them. example, the jets have flight ceiling, has tendency to stall when flying too high since the air is too thin for them to keep going. the TIEs have no problem at this. then can fly both sky and space back and forth if they want. second they have high manuverablity in tight turns sure we can do that but they can do tighter without risk of stalling.
Jet engine works when their is enough air to intake, without it, useless.
they can do a stalling strategy, have our planes stall then while they are falling on their stall, they will open fire. so basically its a turkey shoot. especially if Vader himself is involved in a dog fight.
just imagine Vader in his TIE advance and his squadrons engage the USAF, RAF, Russian Airforce and other airforces able in a biggest dogfight in Earth history. TIEs vs. F-22s, F-15s, F-18s, Eurofighters, MiGs, Su series.
don't forget the Star Destroyers, should our jet bombers decided to hit one of them, it will be too difficult too, they got too many AA guns and TIE escorts and the smaller frigate ships as well.
lets go back to the ground again.
The Empire also has tanks too, the Repulsor tanks can match up to our tanks. the difference is that they got shields but enough shots can dissipate it, though it can recharge but it takes time. they got the speed since they are anti-gravity but we got the sheer firepower. their lasers are design to inflict piercing shots, they miss, their mistake.
just imagine this Repulsor tanks in large numbers going head to head with the Earth tanks, US Abrams, British Challengers, French Leclerts, Russian T-90s etc in a big fields in France, the Sahara, or the Siberian Tundras.
I think I covered the Conventional Warfare. we have a fighting chance despite the advancement in technology. again given by our nature, we will tend to capture their weapons and utilize them as our own.
Sure there will be traitors, but that's unvoidable. this is war, there is always snakes in the grass as I say it.
now if your mentioning the war of attrition. its true I agree, the Empire can do what the Viecong, and the North Vietnam did during the Vietnam war. inflict enough casualties to force the enemy to withdraw and cause internal strife. they did this and soon the US pulled out from Vietnam. the Empire will do the same, inflict enough death to make the people despair and cause internal breakdown. Emperor Palpatine is scheming enough to realize this strategy.
okay let's go to the 'more dakka' approach.
Darth Vader: SIZE MEANS NOTHING TO THE FORCE!
Vader alone can deal with most troops, simply give a one big force push to crush to bones of the soldiers, wreck the armor of the tanks and make every ammunition explode. missile barrage? no problem. he can simply avoid them by making force related maneuvers. he maybe part machine but he can still move agile thanks to the force.
in case of an ordinance barrage, (Artillery, missile and bombs all trained at him in all directions) he can use the force to detonate them before reaching him detonating one can cause a chain reaction. he force pull aircraft to crash it to the ground, even in high speed.
he can force crush navy destroyers, entire naval landing fleets, and even the massive Aircraft carriers if he wants to. his lightsaber can cut to anything that stand in his way, he can block bullets with it. or simply use the force to stop the bullets in mid flight, or simply throw back at them with the power and speed of the supersonic jet.
he alone is a one man army.
the chances of overwhelming him with sheer number alone, possible but depending on the situation. if Vader is wounded in someway, yes but if he is in full peak, the statement above is the scenario.
his armor is unlike stormtroopers, he can resist bullet damage since most of his body is machine.
Star Destoryers, Super Star Destroyers.
Okay this is complete checkmate for us. first we don't have the ability to fight a full scale battle in space. these massive ships can bombard us with countless turbolaser barrage that is so intense that many will call it the "Apocalypse". they can knock out our satellites making are communication hampered, and making us blind outside Earth.
but this will be unlikely if the they want to invade and conquer they will not obliterate the planet which they will conquer.
Don't forget Palpatine's toy: THE DEATH STAR
if he got impatient, and lost interest on Earth, he can say "You may fire when ready Commander". Vader will pull out along with every Imperials on the planet then BOOM! no more planet Earth.
Continuation
PS: don't even considering the help of the Rebel Alliance on this one. let's just say Earth stands alone as the Rebel Alliance is really defeated.
You guys only looked on the Movie aspect of the series but you should also look how their military works as well. you will find out guys that their military can still match up with ours today, and find sometimes similarity.
do not base to much on the movies. since not everything in the big screen can be applied in real life. they are only making the heroes look good. do the math and you'll agree in this message.
Nukes?
Nukes?
No Problem, the Radiation affects living things, and the Stormtroopers are no execption. just pray that the Nukes are powerful enough to dissipate Star Destroyer shields.
the shockwave of the Nuclear Blast can topple the AT-ATs that's a guarantee. especially Russian made Nukes. Vader can be blow away with blast, even be killed from it since half organic after all. the radiation can melt his armor if the concentration is too high.
you just really need to hope it is powerful enough to affect the 'big flying metallic pizza slice' ship of theirs (Star Destroyers). if not they will return the favor nicely, with a rain of turbolasers.
Stormies Sniping
I don't know if anyone has thought of this:
OKay, so the Armor of the Stormies is thick.
Just aim for the head while shooting. the bullets might hit or penetrate the eye visors of their helmets. Snipers can make this easy, make their bullets hit the Stromtrooper's eye visors.
then again if the snipers have 50.cal snipers, they would just blow the Trooper's head off.
overall their armor is hard plastic. bullets can make short work of them in many ways.
The Merchant:
Yeah, the US will give for blasters, I did mentioned that above right? We will capture their weapons and utilize it.
Han's blaster maybe modified in way, since he was a hero after all. and you better check the damage of the 50. cal. it can break walls when it hit a proper spot of the target. a 50. cal machine gun can chew up a wall in seconds
Originally posted by The Merchant
lol. SW infantry weaponry is something the USA would give their balls to have dude. Seriously, Han's Pistol left a HUGE crater in concrete walls while a .50 cal at best leaves a small hole in comparison.
.50 cal are design to for armor piercing. Han Blaster is explosive type. his pistol maybe modified since he's a hero. take note: the sheer power of the .50 is strong on its stake. a .50 cal machine gun can chew up walls in seconds provided you know where to aim and shoot. it can make people's head explode, including stormtroopers for sure
I did mention acquiring their weapons yes?
Originally posted by truejedi
I know I bump this thread every year, but it's my favorite, and I still think earth wins.
In a conventional form of warfare, yes... We can win against them
But if the Empire decided to cheat out, well its bye bye Earth. NASA will detect a moon shaped battle station approaching Earth
Originally posted by truejedi
or probably, after we killed all the stormies by turning their heads to jelly inside of their helmets, we could scale the walkers, and ride around on them.
Hijack the walkers? Better call the best carnappers on Earth for that or simply call the Navy Seals or the SAS for it