Originally posted by Endless Mike
Short summary: He's the incarnation of the concept of evil.. And ridiculously powerful (I'm talking "hand PR Beyonder his ass" levels of power here)Yet he still loses in the end....
For instance, Doctor Manhattan was, for his power more or less consistent--he could to a limited extent manipulate the quantum principle. He couldn't stop, rewind or reverse the flow of time, but he could see it coming. Now, that wasn't what was so interesting about him.
Doctor Manhattan, was more of a human than a god. He had a human way of perceiving things, a good example of this would be when he's at Mars and claims that the universe wouldn't even notice whether or not the human race would be extinct. For a omniscient being even the smallest change would be noticeable, even if he were to see the universe from a grander scope--a limited mind however wouldn't even notice if galaxies collided.
Divine power, and its ilk, should be based in the following order: Physics, maths, philosophy. If the power can't be explained through laws of physics, you should turn to maths if maths isn't enough to solve the problem turn to philosophy.
Now, Mike. Don't take this personal but I'm going to pick on this character, Nar, of yours. Hopefully you can take this criticism constructively.
He's the incarnation of evil. Before we go further with this we have to explain the position of evil, either in the fictional world of yours or the real world.
In the real world I see evil as something that prevents future development that I am in favour of. For instance, when I see someone trying to impose religion which is based on faulty teachings and denies the right of questioning with threats of hell and such. I would consider that evil.
In short to me, when psychoanalysing masses, evil would be something of an obstacle in their paths to achieving their dreams (whether small or grand) a very subjective perspective.
People of religion however tend to have an objective set standard "Violate these laws and you're evil."
I assume your universe's would have the objective standard as it's a lot easier to understand and work with. That there's a line in the sand, when someone crosses that line Nar gains strength.
I would however suggest that you worked with the more complex and fleeting system that I use for my definition of evil. It's deeper for one, and it would gather a greater quantity of evil deeds, but also a greater quantity of good deeds. An act which I consider good, might be considered evil by you and your brother--and that way you would empower Nar by "two" points. Rather than the "one" point he would get for a human being committing an evil dead.
The flaw with this system however is that since its subjective the power would be within the mind of corporeal creatures. So Nar would directly be empowered by corporeal creatures. While if there was a greater standard a greater deity might, judging by the corporeal creature's deeds empower or depower Nar.
Of course you could put some neurone power into it and develop a complex system that would work for fleeting minds and a judging greater deity (it's a deity and not a human after all)--or go with the "God works in mysterious ways" explanation.
As for Nar being a incarnation would mean that he has a physical three dimensional body which is swept along with the forth dimension of time. Defining him as some kind of essence or a principle would be a better way of keeping him consistent--if you insist in having him having a physical body he could create manifestations of himself that are bond by space-time (so that his existence don't cause any major fluctuations).
As for dwarfing classic Beyonder, it's not difficult--and whatever you'd pull out of your ass in the end wouldn't be especially difficult to dwarf either.
Originally posted by Astner
As for dwarfing classic Beyonder, it's not difficult--and whatever you'd pull out of your ass in the end wouldn't be especially difficult to dwarf either.
I creating a creature that is automatically more powerful than anything else. Thus if you try to beat it it's automaticaly already more powerful.
VICTORY!!!!!!
introducing the god NAIMEAN
my character is the god of righteous indecision, fortune and misfortune.
whenever someone belives he/she is right but may be completly wrong and willing to go to battle for it... that is his doing.
his abilities ... able to convince anyone that they are wrong even if they know they are right . this way a lot af battles are circumvented or won even b4 the first blow is thrown. his intellegence and cunning is unmatched in all the omniverse. he may not be the most powerful but he is powerful enough to back up his schemes.
his brothers and sister are ... Loki, Hermes, Eris, Anansi, Seth, Coyote, Veles
Originally posted by complexbrother
introducing the god NAIMEANmy character is the god of righteous indecision, fortune and misfortune.
whenever someone belives he/she is right but may be completly wrong and willing to go to battle for it... that is his doing.
his abilities ... able to convince anyone that they are wrong even if they know they are right . this way a lot af battles are circumvented or won even b4 the first blow is thrown. his intellegence and cunning is unmatched in all the omniverse. he may not be the most powerful but he is powerful enough to back up his schemes.
his brothers and sister are ... Loki, Hermes, Eris, Anansi, Seth, Coyote, Veles
nice one
Originally posted by Astner
I don't know why people find a relative term such as power is so fascinating. It takes no effort to make a greater character--unless you want to keep the mentioned character consistent, which can be pretty difficult.For instance, Doctor Manhattan was, for his power more or less consistent--he could to a limited extent manipulate the quantum principle. He couldn't stop, rewind or reverse the flow of time, but he could see it coming. Now, that wasn't what was so interesting about him.
Doctor Manhattan, was more of a human than a god. He had a human way of perceiving things, a good example of this would be when he's at Mars and claims that the universe wouldn't even notice whether or not the human race would be extinct. For a omniscient being even the smallest change would be noticeable, even if he were to see the universe from a grander scope--a limited mind however wouldn't even notice if galaxies collided.
Divine power, and its ilk, should be based in the following order: Physics, maths, philosophy. If the power can't be explained through laws of physics, you should turn to maths if maths isn't enough to solve the problem turn to philosophy.
Now, Mike. Don't take this personal but I'm going to pick on this character, Nar, of yours. Hopefully you can take this criticism constructively.
He's the incarnation of evil. Before we go further with this we have to explain the position of evil, either in the fictional world of yours or the real world.
In the real world I see evil as something that prevents future development that I am in favour of. For instance, when I see someone trying to impose religion which is based on faulty teachings and denies the right of questioning with threats of hell and such. I would consider that evil.
In short to me, when psychoanalysing masses, evil would be something of an obstacle in their paths to achieving their dreams (whether small or grand) a very subjective perspective.
People of religion however tend to have an objective set standard "Violate these laws and you're evil."
I assume your universe's would have the objective standard as it's a lot easier to understand and work with. That there's a line in the sand, when someone crosses that line Nar gains strength.
I would however suggest that you worked with the more complex and fleeting system that I use for my definition of evil. It's deeper for one, and it would gather a greater quantity of evil deeds, but also a greater quantity of good deeds. An act which I consider good, might be considered evil by you and your brother--and that way you would empower Nar by "two" points. Rather than the "one" point he would get for a human being committing an evil dead.
The flaw with this system however is that since its subjective the power would be within the mind of corporeal creatures. So Nar would directly be empowered by corporeal creatures. While if there was a greater standard a greater deity might, judging by the corporeal creature's deeds empower or depower Nar.
Of course you could put some neurone power into it and develop a complex system that would work for fleeting minds and a judging greater deity (it's a deity and not a human after all)--or go with the "God works in mysterious ways" explanation.
As for Nar being a incarnation would mean that he has a physical three dimensional body which is swept along with the forth dimension of time. Defining him as some kind of essence or a principle would be a better way of keeping him consistent--if you insist in having him having a physical body he could create manifestations of himself that are bond by space-time (so that his existence don't cause any major fluctuations).
As for dwarfing classic Beyonder, it's not difficult--and whatever you'd pull out of your ass in the end wouldn't be especially difficult to dwarf either.
Well I defined "evil" as "inflicting harm", whether that harm is physical or mental. It also scales with the consequences of what is done. For example, stepping on an ant is evil, but miniscule compared to killing a human.
Nar also doesn't gain or lose power from evil acts, that's actually the opposite of the way it works. Evil acts occur because he exists. If he didn't exist then everything would be a utopia/paradise with eternal bliss and happiness for everyone.
He has many avatars/incarnations and forms, but as you said he is really an abstract concept. What is interesting is that his different avatars have different personalities and "minds" separate from his main consciousness. So one of them is a prankster who likes to joke around and trick people, one of them is a sadist who enjoys torturing living beings, one of them controls the emotions of seduction and lust, and hist most powerful avatar, the Flamewraith, controls fear.
Really I'm working on expanding the mythos I'm writing but I have some outlines down.