Originally posted by darthgooberTrue, but if the process occurred by actually rearranging of his molecules, than Cable should be able to protect himself from it.
I could see him resisting transmutation from others if it was of the right sort due to his ability to rearrange molecules telekinetically, but Loki's transmutation is magic so I don't really think he'd be able to. Magic's often a b*tch like that to characters who's powers are based on/around science...
Was it ever gone in to detail how he transmutes things?
Oh shit you mean an actual debate is taking place?
Psionic or Magic what does it matter, its just a different mean to make ends meet. Take note, even for Magicians of Strange caliber its hard to describe the nature of psionic. Look at it this way, Rune King Thor vs. Dimension Ipateous (from a manga yourve never even heard off, but what ever).
One applies magic to make ends meet. The later uses cosmic and matter manipulation to accomplish its feet. The match would be determined by who has more to show forth, and because of it Thor isn’t going to win.
Originally posted by Mindset
True, but if the process occurred by actually rearranging of his molecules, than Cable should be able to protect himself from it.Was it ever gone in to detail how he transmutes things?
I won't say for certain that Nate would be vulnerable or that Loki's method of transmutation is different because their not enough evidence to support either stance conclusively, but judging by the "norm" for comics I'd say it more likely that Nate wouldn't be able to counter magical transmutation without the aid of his own sorcerer. But then again, I guess it's theoretically possible that if he retained his powers after being transformed he could pull the appropriate knowledge out of Loki's mind...
Originally posted by id369
Oh shit you mean an actual debate is taking place?Psionic or Magic what does it matter, its just a different mean to make ends meet. Take note, even for Magicians of Strange caliber its hard to describe the nature of psionic. Look at it this way, Rune King Thor vs. Dimension Ipateous (from a manga yourve never even heard off, but what ever).
One applies magic to make ends meet. The later uses cosmic and matter manipulation to accomplish its feet. The match would be determined by who has more to show forth, and because of it Thor isn’t going to win.
I have to disagree. Having the same effect in the end in no way suggest that the means to prevent one will work on the other. Intangibility is the same way, just because you have counters for someone altering their density, it doesn't mean that you have counters for someone vibrating at super speed, turning into a form of energy, shunting their mass to another dimension, etc. because the means to their intangibility is different. Along similar lines, Juggernaught's invulnerability can't be bypassed with a telekinetic sword(at least that I know of) but it CAN be bypassed by a magical one.
Originally posted by darthgooberI have to disagree. Having the same effect in the end in no way suggest that the means to prevent one will work on the other. Intangibility is the same way, just because you have counters for someone altering their density, it doesn't mean that you have counters for someone vibrating at super speed, turning into a form of energy, shunting their mass to another dimension, etc. because the means to their intangibility is different. Along similar lines, Juggernaught's invulnerability can't be bypassed with a telekinetic sword(at least that I know of) but it CAN be bypassed by a magical one.
Your giving me an example based on bifurcation. Your expressing a condition (in this case Juggernaut invulnerability), applying two distinct properties (TK, and Magic). The example calls forth two situations where one was effective (magic) and the other simply wasn’t (Psy). Your argument isn’t convincing, because Juggernaut’s invulnerability, has more examples where Magic/Psi has bin both effective and infective.
Any how, in the world of Psionics, countering vibration of super speed, turning into a form of energy, shunting their mass to another dimension. Etc… is dependent on the knowledge, experience, and power said character has in the given moment. This is because anything including reality warping is possible using psyionics.
Loki's matter manipulation/reality warping involves him snapping his fingers and simple gestures like that. Reality Warping is very often temporary, like Proteus' was, Loki's stuff seems to be permanent.
When he turns intangible he becomes invisible to boot, impossible to spot even for characters like Seth. He can still work his powers while intangible, like he did when he restored Thor after weeks of torture, without becoming visible or breaking his intangibility.
Aside from that he's got full control over his body, can live after decapitation, turn into virtually anything, increase his size, etc.
Matter Manipulation can normally be reversed, but you can't technologically reverse magic since you need a counter-spell or to "break" the spell. If Cable and Loki both messed up eachother's bodies, Loki would only need to magically will himself back in shape.
And Loki vs Surfer is pretty undetermined for anyone who likes to use that as a feat. Loki only engaged Norrin so that he could trick him, and temporarily grant him a huge powerboost. Full Power Norrin vs Loki is undetermined and one for the ages.
As is, Loki's shown himself capable of harming both Surtur and Bor. Pretty awesome. I'm still waiting on the scans of Cable that puts him on par with that.
A feat comparable to Surtur.
Cable has no confrontations with Sky Father level being. His God like era was short lived.
X-Man took on the 3 great beasts.
And Stryfe momentarily held back Phoenix Enemy, the Cosmic entity known as Le Bete Noir.
Take Note: Psionic Shields have held up against offensive magic.
Originally posted by id369
A feat comparable to Surtur.Cable has no confrontations with Sky Father level being. His God like era was short lived.
X-Man took on the 3 great beasts.
And Stryfe momentarily held back Phoenix Enemy, the Cosmic entity known as Le Bete Noir.
Take Note: Psionic Shields have held up against offensive magic.
- Well, we need feats and not speculation.
- He BFR'ed 2 of them, and according to Mungi they were at full power.
- K.....
High End Magic users have tried to transmute Cable. All have been blocked by the enchantment placed on Cable during Inferno.
Besides Cable Full Power can controll the molecules of everyone on The planet He turned the world pink he turned them back to normal And he regulated white blood cell count accross Earth so Im guessing even if Loki gets past Cable's aura He'll hit a brick wall.
Cable in a Stomp.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Well, we need feats and not speculation.- He BFR'ed 2 of them, and according to Mungi they were at full power.
- K.....
That has bin answered. Cable has not confronted any being above the Herald Class. You could take his alternate and inferior self to wage where he stands. But otherwise, they operate on the same power scale, with Cable retaining more maturity, and experience in terms of psionic.
The First attempted to siphon the energy of Nate Grey. It overloaded itself and exploded. The other two, had the planets gravity isolated and set them flying into space. Refer to X-Man 39 and 40.
Originally posted by id369
That has bin answered. Cable has not confronted any being above the Herald Class. You could take his alternate and inferior self to wage where he stands. But otherwise, they operate on the same power scale, with Cable retaining more maturity, and experience in terms of psionic.The First attempted to siphon the energy of Nate Grey. It overloaded itself and exploded. The other two, had the planets gravity isolated and set them flying into space. Refer to X-Man 39 and 40.
Like I said, they were not at full power, and if Cable does not have feats to match your claims then there's no ground for claiming that he can defeat Loki. When it got down to it, the only way Thor could permanently defeat Loki was by absorbing and storing his very sole inside Mjolnir.
Telepathy is a dead end, neither is affecting the other there.
Originally posted by shiv
High End Magic users have tried to transmute Cable. All have been blocked by the enchantment placed on Cable during Inferno.Besides Cable Full Power can controll the molecules of everyone on The planet He turned the world pink he turned them back to normal And he regulated white blood cell count accross Earth so Im guessing even if Loki gets past Cable's aura He'll hit a brick wall.
Cable in a Stomp.
What "high end magic users" are we talking about here?
Doesn't matter if he can mess with regular people, advanced telekinesis, or molecular control if you want, cannot reverse magic.
And you know, Loki could still beat the shit out of him, or overpower him.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Like I said, they were not at full power, and if Cable does not have feats to match your claims then there's no ground for claiming that he can defeat Loki. When it got down to it, the only way Thor could permanently defeat Loki was by absorbing and storing his very sole inside Mjolnir.Telepathy is a dead end, neither is affecting the other there.
Seriously Cable does not need the feat to match Surtur. He demonstrated World Level TK. That’s enough to put down Loki.
And how about you show me a claim or a scan specifying Telphaty would not work on Loki. Asgardians are not immune to TP.
Originally posted by id369
Seriously Cable does not need the feat to match Surtur. He demonstrated World Level TK. That’s enough to put down Loki.And how about you show me a claim or a scan specifying Telphaty would not work on Loki. Asgardians are not immune to TP.
They aren't immune, Loki isn't Asgardian and Loki has displayed telepathy many times.
World level TK, lmao.