Who is the better fugitive?

Well you have! With Riggs. Havent you...?!!

When all logic goes against you, you just close your eyes and think warm thoughts about old Riggsy until the those nasty wasty truth teller people with their usages of logic on their side go away to leave you in peace in Riggs world..

OK then. Ask yourself this: In h2h battles, which if the two tends to be sloppier?

Ahhhhh thats a tricky question: Both display sloppinesses within their own forms..

So Im gonna deffer to who kills the most people in that scenario and give them the win: that person is McClane.

So it's back to the "more kills makes a better h2h combatant" tact?

A more prolific and reliable one. Yeah.

And on hiring day, Im gonna take that guy on, rather than the one who tries to be flash, but fails.

Your problem is, that you equate big flashy ballet shit that relies heavily on complaince for the opponent (movie fighting) with fighting.
And you are fooled by the asthetics.

Without a choreographer, in a real world fight, Riggs'd get raped to death by someone of McClane's power delivering the more basic stuff.. therefore, in the realms of H2H fighting, I'd pick McClane.

(And thats without mentioning McClane's superior Endurance, Stamina, Mercilessness (most of the time except where he let Ninja chick live and almost sufffered consequences as a result) and luck etc. that make him even more )

Riggs was dominated with some very basic boxing.
Riggs martial arts guards'd have no answer for the blows being rained down by McClane. Whereas McClanes endurance and chin will see him through easily against what Riggs would have to offer.

Nah, I am going with who has a better record in battles that start and finish h2h. That is, if I am looking to hire the superior h2h combatant.

And that'd still be McClane.

(Especially as we'd have to discount any that Murtaugh played a part in.)

Really now? McClane has more knowledge and is better trained at h2h combat?

As evidenced by his wins, practically speaking.

It depends what YOU mean by "Better trained" and "Martial arts".

And since we saw that Riggs was unable to beat even a basic bit of boxing, that shows you what all that flashy stuff really is.

And NO WAY could old man Riggs (even way back in the in the LW4) could have been agile enough to deliver his flashier (longer to perform, prone to failure in RL) techniques before McClane would be on him.

And given these few facts:

1) Rigg's "Martial arts" defense cannot cope faced with boxing shots.
2) Riggs'll be to slow to get anything significant in on McClane
3) DH 4.0 McClane'll be smashing the f**k out of old man Riggs (who is around 60ish now)

Its shit-street for the pensioner, Riggs.
And its a good job he'll have false teeth by now as it'd save McClane having to remove them with his left. But the meagre cop pension that Riggs'll have to live on might not cover the trip to the hospital/morgue that Riggs'd need though.

LW4 Riggs, you gotta admit, his fighting style was very similar to McClane's.

Remember the world is full of champion trained shooters who are great on the range, yet fall apart when trying to kill live targets.

Bags dont hit back etc.
Once compliance is removed from the equation, most MA is useless.

So your training at the best of times, is not a guarantee against a bad motherf**ka.

Agreed on that, I have seen it in real life. I knew a guy once who fought golden gloves, but when he got into a street fight, he froze.

There ya go.

Good/lucky for his opponent.
If the guy was a champion, he could have killed a untrained guy in a street fight.

Unless the untrained guy was just a bad mother****er.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Bags dont hit back etc.
Once compliance is removed from the equation, most MA is useless.

So your training at the best of times, is not a guarantee against a bad motherf**ka.

Exactly, those MMA guys are tough in the ring, but surprise then with a thumb in their eye and a grab-twist-yank job on the goody-bag, then what happens.

(probably still get my ass kicked, but you get the point)

Absolutely.

Once McClane has removed what remains of old decrepid Riggs' happy sack with a brutal low uppercut or hook, catching Riggs as tries some airy fairy kick stuff but at old man speed, and without a choreographer telling McClane to stay there and wait for Riggs to connect with a kick, the fight would be over.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Unless the untrained guy was just a bad mother****er.

Yes my logic would suggest so.

But in McClane's case, that would have to be SOME untrained bad motherf***er.

Satan...?

LOST's "Jughead" maybe...?

Sorry, are you implying that Riggs hasnt a clue how to fight dirty or with street tactics?

Nope.

If anything, we were more saying its that kinda thing that saves your ass on the street, more than some gh-h-h-ey Van damme splits manuever or elaborate flashy form based kick..

But now you mention it, if he fights dirty, we dont see it on film.

But trying to take McClane with such tactics, would be like trying to out-wet the Atlantic ocean in a "fight of most liquidy to the death".

Riggs would be better off running away.

(But he wouldnt be able to do that at his age.)

Not really dirty, but Riggs does fight......questionably? In some scenes.