Sith Lord Competition · Star Wars Versus Forum

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
No he doesn't. He was trying to win a war. He didn't "Destroy" anybody. His followers converted other Jedi.

Yes! To just win the war, he embraced the dark side and became a Sith Lord. He than decided to convert many Jedi to dark side and would himself kill those who would refuse to convert. He also decided to destroy the Republic forces not loyal to him. His greater ambition was to conquer the Republic itself and than prepare to battle the so called "True Sith." He would even choke female republic officers and would kill any one who would stand in his way. He even cut the lower jaw of his apprentice.

Dude! He behaved like a proper Sith Lord during his tenure, even though he was wiser than Malak. If he had accomplished all of his plans, what he would have done than? Become a Jedi again! 🙄

His ambitions seemed noble but they were not.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes! To just win the war, he embraced the dark side and became a Sith Lord. He than decided to convert many Jedi to dark side and would himself kill those who would refuse to convert. He also decided to destroy the Republic forces not loyal to him. His greater ambition was to conquer the Republic itself and than prepare to battle the so called "True Sith." He would even choke female republic officers and would kill any one who would stand in his way. He even cut the lower jaw of his apprentice.

Prove he killed anyone himself, prove he converted the jedi himself, because from everything we know, it wasn't he who did any of that and even if it was, that doesn't place him anywhere on the most morally corrupt list. Furthermore, it's irrelevant that he embraced the dark side because he was in a war with the mandalorians and during war, you do what you do to win. Not to mention he didn't do anything that can really be construed as morally corrupt. He destroyed an entire planet to win a war. Question it if you will but it still doesn't put him anywhere on the list. Now, please show me where he choked female republic officers, and then show me how this would place him on the list, if he DID do that. After you show me nothing, prove that it was he that cut the lower jaw of his apprentice and not kavar, and then show me how that makes him "morally corrupt".

Dude! He behaved like a proper Sith Lord during his tenure, even though he was wiser than Malak. If he had accomplished all of his plans, what he would have done than? Become a Jedi again! 🙄
His ambitions seemed noble but they were not.

You have offered nothing resembling an argument for why Revan was morally corrupt, or should even be on this list. Speculation, bullshit, and lack of logic, but that's about it.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
[B]Prove he killed anyone himself, prove he converted the jedi himself, because from everything we know, it wasn't he who did any of that and even if it was, that doesn't place him anywhere on the most morally corrupt list. [B]

Agreed, the only known people he killed as a sith/dark jedi were Mandalore The Ulitmate, rakatan scouting parties, Yusanis and he choked out one officer before Malak betrayed him.

He destroyed an entire planet to win a war. Question it if you will but it still doesn't put him anywhere on the list.

Especially when the planet had no civilizations on it.

You have offered nothing resembling an argument for why Revan was morally corrupt, or should even be on this list. Speculation, bullshit, and lack of logic, but that's about it.

QFT.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove he killed anyone himself, prove he converted the jedi himself, because from everything we know, it wasn't he who did any of that and even if it was, that doesn't place him anywhere on the most morally corrupt list.

"Revan understood one thing–the real battle was going to be fought between the Jedi on both sides. That was the only battle that mattered. […] Whoever had the most, the strongest Jedi were going to win the Civil War. If Revan couldn't convert Jedi, then Revan would kill them."

Comments from Atton Rand, one of the followers of Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Furthermore, it's irrelevant that he embraced the dark side because he was in a war with the mandalorians and during war, you do what you do to win.

I think that Jedi Master Yoda should have embraced the dark side too during the Clone Wars to ensure victory and prevent the formation of the Sith Empire. 🙄

Revan became a Sith Lord and kept his plans secret from most of his comrades. The Battle of Malachor V revealed his true face. He decided to sacrifice an entire military force to defeat the Mandalorians. The outcome was so horrific that it resulted in the creation of a "Wound in the Force."

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Not to mention he didn't do anything that can really be construed as morally corrupt. He destroyed an entire planet to win a war.

You sound like a spokesman working for Darth Revan.

Don't be ridiculous. His did not just destroyed a planet to win a war. He sacrificed an entire Republic force in the process. His actions resulted in creation of a "Wound in the Force," which has never happened before. Several survivors of that battle defected from Revan's forces. The notable ones included: Yusanis, Atton Rand, and Jedi Exile.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Question it if you will but it still doesn't put him anywhere on the list.

Oh! I did not realized that Revan did all the above for a noble cause. He deserves a noble peace price for his "war crimes." 🙄

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Now, please show me where he choked female republic officers, and then show me how this would place him on the list, if he DID do that.

This is just one of the revelations from his brutal reign as a DLOTS.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
After you show me nothing, prove that it was he that cut the lower jaw of his apprentice and not kavar, and then show me how that makes him "morally corrupt".

It has been confirmed in a new book on KOTOR by John Jackson Miller that Revan actually sliced the lower jaw of Malak during his reign as DLOTS.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You have offered nothing resembling an argument for why Revan was morally corrupt, or should even be on this list. Speculation, bullshit, and lack of logic, but that's about it.

Ignorance is not a blessing. Why not do some homework first before passing bullshit remarks on me?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Don't be ridiculous. His did not just destroyed a planet to win a war. He sacrificed an entire Republic force in the process. His actions resulted in creation of a "Wound in the Force," which has never happened before. Several survivors of that battle defected from Revan's forces. The notable ones included: Yusanis, Atton Rand, and Jedi Exile.

A minor correction here:

Atton Rand did not defected. However Yusanis and Jedi Exile did defected after the battle of Malachor V.

Wolverine2179 Restricted

Where did you get that image legend? Was it from a comic?

Its nice to see you again!

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
"Revan understood one thing–the real battle was going to be fought between the Jedi on both sides. That was the only battle that mattered. […] Whoever had the most, the strongest Jedi were going to win the Civil War. If Revan couldn't convert Jedi, then Revan would kill them."
Comments from [b]Atton Rand, one of the followers of Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War.

Hilarious. Comments from a fallible 3rd party character that are backed up by NOTHING.

I think that Jedi Master Yoda should have embraced the dark side too during the Clone Wars to ensure victory and prevent the formation of the Sith Empire. 🙄

You're an idiot. The comparison doesn't even make sense. Different war, different circumstances, different actions. Converting to the dark side in NO WAY puts Revan on this list.

Revan became a Sith Lord and kept his plans secret from most of his comrades. The Battle of Malachor V revealed his true face. He decided to sacrifice an entire military force to defeat the Mandalorians. The outcome was so horrific that it resulted in the creation of a "Wound in the Force."

It was a WAR on a planet that lacked any kind of civilization. So no.

You sound like a spokesman working for Darth Revan.

ROFLROFLROFL. In the words of Gideon, Pot.Kettle.Black. You're the one trying to tell me what and why he was doing it and what he was thinking.

Don't be ridiculous. His did not just destroyed a planet to win a war. He sacrificed an entire Republic force in the process. His actions resulted in creation of a "Wound in the Force," which has never happened before. Several survivors of that battle defected from Revan's forces. The notable ones included: Yusanis, Atton Rand, and Jedi Exile.

Prove he was the first to create a wound in the force(you can't). Prove everybody in the republic force was sacrificed(you can't). Prove his actions warranted any kind of "most morally corrupt"sith lord ranking(you can't).

Oh! I did not realized that Revan did all the above for a noble cause. He deserves a noble peace price for his "war crimes." 🙄

Being an idiot doesn't mean you can attempt sarcasm, especially when it makes no sense.

This is just one of the revelations from his brutal reign as a DLOTS.

OMG he choked an officer, that means he's DEFINITELY one of the most morally corrupt sith lords EVAARRRRR!!!! Nevermind the fact that almost every sith lord we know of has done something of this nature.

It has been confirmed in a new book on KOTOR by John Jackson Miller that Revan actually sliced the lower jaw of Malak during his reign as DLOTS.

Prove up or shut up.

Ignorance is not a blessing. Why not do some homework first before passing bullshit remarks on me? [/B]

Because you're still without an argument getting your ass kicked.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove he killed anyone himself, prove he converted the jedi himself, because from everything we know, it wasn't he who did any of that and even if it was, that doesn't place him anywhere on the most morally corrupt list.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
"Revan understood one thing–the real battle was going to be fought between the Jedi on both sides. That was the only battle that mattered. […] Whoever had the most, the strongest Jedi were going to win the Civil War. If Revan couldn't convert Jedi, then Revan would kill them."
Comments from [b]Atton Rand, one of the followers of Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War.[/B]

Show us proof that Revan personally hunted down and killed the jedi that didn't join him. We know that his empire had assassins for this type of thing.

Revan became a Sith Lord and kept his plans secret from most of his comrades. The Battle of Malachor V revealed his true face. He decided to sacrifice an entire military force to defeat the Mandalorians. The outcome was so horrific that it resulted in the creation of a "Wound in the Force."

This is your only piece of evidence for Revan and it is not enough. You can't ignore the fact that it is a war and you have to make hard choices.

This is just one of the revelations from his brutal reign as a DLOTS.

OMG HE CHOKED HIS OWN SOLIDER!! That is such a revelation and something we haven't seen before...

It has been confirmed in a new book on KOTOR by John Jackson Miller that Revan actually sliced the lower jaw of Malak during his reign as DLOTS.

Do we know why he did it? If he did it in the heat of battle than it is not a point for his him here.

If you look at the list of morally corrupt sith, they have more than one "feat" to their name for this. Malak, Kun, Sidious, Nihilus, Dooku, Krayt, Nadd, Bane, Vader and even Cadeus have more morally corrupt acts off the top of my head.

Kotor3 Senior Member

SW LeGenD you should examine the topic again. Revan’s war was a very destructive war for the Jedi. I believe there is a quote that states even more then the one that Kun started.

However, Revan is view as a hero is the Star Wars Universe and a hero cannot fall in the following categories:

Sith Lord with the most atrocities to their name.

Worse Sith Lord?

If the topic entailed greatest wars in Star Wars History then Revan’s name could appear.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Yeah. Greatest wars or heroes he can pop up. But Revan's a saint by comparison to some.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

DS, you're right, but a few of your paragraphs aren't helping your argument at all:

[quote]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
"Revan understood one thing–the real battle was going to be fought between the Jedi on both sides. That was the only battle that mattered. […] Whoever had the most, the strongest Jedi were going to win the Civil War. If Revan couldn't convert Jedi, then Revan would kill them."
Comments from Atton Rand, one of the followers of Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War.

Hilarious. Comments from a fallible 3rd party character that are backed up by NOTHING.[/quote]
Atton seems to have been in a position to know about this; there is nothing to suggest that he was lying and, as it happened to him, he cannot be incorrect. A better way to dispute the quote might be to ask for proof that Revan carried out the conversions personally, as opposed to simply ordering them completed. Disputing Atton's testimony seems foolish without grounds on which to do so.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Not to mention he didn't do anything that can really be construed as morally corrupt. He destroyed an entire planet to win a war. [quote] You sound like a spokesman working for Darth Revan.

ROFLROFLROFL. In the words of Gideon, Pot.Kettle.Black. You're the one trying to tell me what and why he was doing it and what he was thinking.[/quote]
Legend's point was that your statement helped prove Revan's lack of character, not that you were being biased in any way. He was highlighting a mistake, not attacking you personally. Therefore your response becomes a non sequitor.

But yeah. Revan doesn't belong anywhere near this list, even if only because there are so many other contenders- whether he belongs on the list at all, he is sure to be very near to the bottom.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Atton seems to have been in a position to know about this; there is nothing to suggest that he was lying and, as it happened to him, he cannot be incorrect. A better way to dispute the quote might be to ask for proof that Revan carried out the conversions personally, as opposed to simply ordering them completed. Disputing Atton's testimony seems foolish without grounds on which to do so.

What do you mean there was nothing to suggest he was lying? Has he SEEN Revan kill Jedi he could not convert? It's not foolish because the testimony itself seems like hearsay at best, bullshit at worst.

Legend's point was that your statement helped prove Revan's lack of character, not that you were being biased in any way. He was highlighting a mistake, not attacking you personally. Therefore your response becomes a non sequitor.

Why would I ever argue Revan's "lack of character"? And all it was, was a retarded, hypocritical comment. I wasn't the one speculating on anything Revan was doing, whereas that's exactly the position SW Legend took. Hence, hypocritical. Hence, Pot.kettle.Black.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

It was a major point of the dialogue that Atton was finally comfortable talking to you about it; there is no point to a revelation that comes from a buildup of trust if the character is still lying to you. It doesn't make sense, in universe or out.

The 'lack of character' is the point of the thread. 'Lack of character' is synonymous with 'corrupt/evil'. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the part of your post that I bolded was illustrating how bad Revan was. Legend pointed out that it didn't help your case. That's all. It wasn't meant to be about your overall argument- only about that one line.

But I'm just criticizing because you haven't responded to the other thread yet.

Do it!
[/palpatine]

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
[B]It was a major point of the dialogue that Atton was finally comfortable talking to you about it; there is no point to a revelation that comes from a buildup of trust if the character is still lying to you. It doesn't make sense, in universe or out.

There is absolutely NOTHING suggesting Atton saw Revan personally killing Jedi. Nothing.

But I'm just criticizing because you haven't responded to the other thread yet.

What thread?

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Spoiler:
On 'God' in PrE

Yeah. It took me more than a week to respond (maybe?) so it isn't unreasonable at all to hope for a response within 2 days...

🙄

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Spoiler:
On 'God' in PrE
Yeah. It took me more than a week to respond (maybe?) so it isn't unreasonable at all to hope for a response within 2 days...
🙄

I haven't even looked at that forum in a while, i'll check it out and get a response as soon as I can.

ares834 Senior Member

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Where did you get that image legend? Was it from a comic?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Hilarious. Comments from a fallible 3rd party character that are backed up by NOTHING.

Atton Rand served Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War and was one of his Jedi Hunters. His job was to capture Jedi and bring them to Darth Revan and his acolytes for conversion purpose. So why would he lie?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You're an idiot. The comparison doesn't even make sense. Different war, different circumstances, different actions. Converting to the dark side in NO WAY puts Revan on this list.

Becoming a Sith Lord was one thing. His "war crimes" showed his true nature. He was morally bankrupt enough to sacrifice millions of lives in a single battle for his ambitions. A Jedi would never sacrifice the lives of millions to just win a battle. Only a morally bankrupt person would do such a thing. If Revan was not really morally bankrupt, he should have cautioned his forces about his plans to use a Super Weapon.

No sane leader would use a Super Weapon in a battle knowing that it would wipe out friendly forces along with the enemies to just win a war.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It was a WAR on a planet that lacked any kind of civilization. So no.

OK! The planet lacked any civilization. But what about the Republic forces which came to combat the enemy forces above that planet? Did those soldiers and Jedi deserved such a fate for simply following Revan?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
ROFLROFLROFL. In the words of Gideon, Pot.Kettle.Black. You're the one trying to tell me what and why he was doing it and what he was thinking.

Any right minded person would understand that Revan's actions during the war were brutal once he became a Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove he was the first to create a wound in the force(you can't). Prove everybody in the republic force was sacrificed(you can't). Prove his actions warranted any kind of "most morally corrupt"sith lord ranking(you can't).

Creating a "Wound in the Force" was not a joke. It happened because of unprecedented bloodshed and loss of lives at the conclusion of the battle of Malachor V. Thanks to sinister plans of Darth Revan. I don't know of any battle prior to the Battle of Malachor V, which resulted in creation of Wounds in the Force.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Being an idiot doesn't mean you can attempt sarcasm, especially when it makes no sense.

Rubbish comments like these will not help your case.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
OMG he choked an officer, that means he's DEFINITELY one of the most morally corrupt sith lords EVAARRRRR!!!! Nevermind the fact that almost every sith lord we know of has done something of this nature.

He choked a "harmless female officer." Only a morally bankrupt leader would do that.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove up or shut up.

Can't you read?

The latest book by author, John Jackson Miller, on KOTOR confirms that Darth Revan actually ripped apart the lower jaw of his apprentice.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Because you're still without an argument getting your ass kicked.

Your denial of facts aren't working here. Revan was a morally bankrupt person during his reign as a Dark Lord. He may not be among the worst but he surely deserves a spot among top 20 at-least.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Atton Rand served Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War and was one of his Jedi Hunters. His job was to capture Jedi and bring them to Darth Revan and his acolytes for conversion purpose. So why would he lie?

Proof that Revan personally hunted them down and killed them. Otherwise this loses "value" in this discussion because numerous sith had their soldiers/followers hunt down jedi.

Becoming a Sith Lord was one thing. His "war crimes" showed his true nature.

Funny how the Republic did care too much about his "war crimes" from the mandalorian war. The fact that the Republic deemed him a hero hurts him here because your suppose to be hated for morally bankrupt acts but that didn't happen.

He was morally bankrupt enough to sacrifice millions of lives in a single battle for his ambitions. A Jedi would never sacrifice the lives of millions to just win a battle

What's your source that says he sacrificed millions of Republic soldiers and jedi?

No sane leader would use a Super Weapon in a battle knowing that it would wipe out friendly forces along with the enemies to just win a war.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Creating a "Wound in the Force" was not a joke. It happened because of unprecedented bloodshed and loss of lives at the conclusion of the battle of Malachor V. Thanks to sinister plans of Darth Revan. I don't know of any battle prior to the Battle of Malachor V, which resulted in creation of Wounds in the Force.

You make it sound like Revan intended to create a wound in the force.

The latest book by author, John Jackson Miller, on KOTOR confirms that Darth Revan actually ripped apart the lower jaw of his apprentice.

We need details, because as I said if he did it combat/self defense then it is justifiable.

He choked a "harmless female officer." Only a morally bankrupt leader would do that.

This is far from proving he is among top sith. Your only points for putting Revan on the list is A) the battle of Malachor which has been addressed but certainly can't be discounted. B)Hunting down jedi-which you haven't proven that Revan personally did, when he had numerous followers for such a job and this is pretty standard action for sith so it doesn't set him apart from the pack. C)Choking his own officer-not exactly unheard of... D)cutting off Malak's jaw-provide some details, if done because they were in a serious duel then Revan's action wasn't done out of lack of morals.

Your denial of facts aren't working here. Revan was a morally bankrupt person during his reign as a Dark Lord. He may not be among the worst but he surely deserves a spot among top 20 at-least.

Cut the fanboyism, it's old and tiring. Top 20, seriously? Are there even 20 sith that are so heavily covered/featured in sw(as much as, if not more then Revan's life is) to make such a list? Our lists generally consists of 5 or 10 NOT 20 so we can get our favorite character mentioned like you do in threads like these.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Atton Rand served Darth Revan during the Jedi Civil War and was one of his Jedi Hunters. His job was to capture Jedi and bring them to Darth Revan and his acolytes for conversion purpose. So why would he lie?

Prove he has witnessed Revan personally kill Jedi.
Becoming a Sith Lord was one thing. His "war crimes" showed his true nature. He was morally bankrupt enough to sacrifice millions of lives in a single battle for his ambitions. A Jedi would never sacrifice the lives of millions to just win a battle. Only a morally bankrupt person would do such a thing. If Revan was not really morally bankrupt, he should have cautioned his forces about his plans to use a Super Weapon.

WHAT "war crimes"? Prove how many people he killed. And I know your debating skills suck something awful, but this is a thread about most morally corrupt sith, not a comparison between the moralities of the sith and the jedi. And the issue isn't at all whether Revan was "morally bankrupt", the issue was if he was bad enough to be put on the list. Stop trying to change the argument, it's embarrassing.
No sane leader would use a Super Weapon in a battle knowing that it would wipe out friendly forces along with the enemies to just win a war.

Sanity isn't the issue here and his "Sanity" can very likely be debated because it's a time of war.
OK! The planet lacked any civilization. But what about the Republic forces which came to combat the enemy forces above that planet? Did those soldiers and Jedi deserved such a fate for simply following Revan?

Irrelevant. Him sacrificing troops might be questionable at best, but he ended the war.
Any right minded person would understand that Revan's actions during the war were brutal once he became a Sith Lord.

Stop trying to appeal to alleged reason, it's failing.
Creating a "Wound in the Force" was not a joke. It happened because of unprecedented bloodshed and loss of lives at the conclusion of the battle of Malachor V. Thanks to sinister plans of Darth Revan. I don't know of any battle prior to the Battle of Malachor V, which resulted in creation of Wounds in the Force.

Prove that was the first "wound in the force".
Rubbish comments like these will not help your case.

I've destroyed your argument what, 3 times now?
He choked a "harmless female officer." Only a morally bankrupt leader would do that.

Prove only a morally bankrupt leader would do that. This isn't even a debate anymore. It's you trying too hard.

The latest book by author, John Jackson Miller, on KOTOR confirms that Darth Revan actually ripped apart the lower jaw of his apprentice.

Can't you read? Evidence or stfu.

Your denial of facts aren't working here. Revan was a morally bankrupt person during his reign as a Dark Lord. He may not be among the worst but he surely deserves a spot among top 20 at-least.

You've had to change your argument so many times it's hilarious. You should stop now.