Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not agree with SW LeGenD about Revan but since his argument is being attacked as to prove what Revan did personally, then I asked what did Sidious do personally by the time of ROTS that puts his name on the list?
Why are you restricting Sidious to ROTS?
1. Having people assassinated from his time as a senator to ROTS. We KNOW it was his orders.
2. Training sith, with the intentions of betraying them when a more powerful one came along.
3. Basically raising two opposing armies to start a galaxy wide conflict.
4. The destruction of the Jedi Order
These are only a few I can think of by ROTS only, and they still outshine anything "bad" Revan has done.
Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not agree with SW LeGenD about Revan but since his argument is being attacked as to prove what Revan did personally
If you are referring to what Darth Sexy and myself asking that "Revan personally hunted down jedi that didn't join" then yes we are attacking it because the quote provided (from Atton) doesn't prove that he did it himself and we know that he had assassins for that type of work. Yes, it is a morally corrupt act but it doesn't set him apart from other sith X or Y who tried the same thing.
then I asked what did Sidious do personally by the time of ROTS that puts his name on the list?
1. In TPM he arranged for the Trade Federation to blockade his own planet that he represents and manipulated the whole conflict.
2.He was responsible for the vote of no confidence in Valorum(sp) so he could become the next the chancellor.
3.He was responsible for the destruction of Outbound Flight.(through Thrawn and Doriana)
4. He was solely responsible for the Clone Wars(anyone have an idea of the death figure?) which gave him emergency powers to stay in office longer and he would eventually use these powers to justify the creation of the galactic empire.
5.He manipulated both sides of the war to prolong, which obviously resulted in a lot more deaths and helped weakened the jedi order further.
6.Order 66, which had the troops that jedi thought were loyal to them and some of which had close bonds with, betrayed and killed them. Unlike Revan we have no evidence that suggests Revan's assassins had the same type of relation with the jedi as the clone troopers did.
7.Manipulated the emotions of Anakin Skwalker and turned him the dark side
8.various assassinations
9. Needless to say he committed treason.
I got that from the top of my head, there is probably a lot more out there. And this is only up to ROTS, you're limiting his tenure as a sith here.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDon't you remember? These were the least loyal ones. And it was all for a "cause".
Becoming a Sith Lord was one thing. His "war crimes" showed his true nature. He was morally bankrupt enough to sacrifice millions of lives in a single battle for his ambitions. A Jedi would never sacrifice the lives of millions to just win a battle. Only a morally bankrupt person would do such a thing. If Revan was not really morally bankrupt, he should have cautioned his forces about his plans to use a Super Weapon.No sane leader would use a Super Weapon in a battle knowing that it would wipe out friendly forces along with the enemies to just win a war.
OK! The planet lacked any civilization. But what about the Republic forces which came to combat the enemy forces above that planet? Did those soldiers and Jedi deserved such a fate for simply following Revan?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDon't you see though? These brutal acts are quite unlisted. The billions and billions of lives Malak ended on Telos and Taris "just cause they were in the way" outmatches Revan killing millions of soldiers in a war. Sorry but: Untold Civilian Billions>>>Soldier Millions.
Any right minded person would understand that Revan's actions during the war were brutal once he became a Sith Lord.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDRevan did some bad things, yes. But creating that wound, choking an officer, and severing an even more evil man's jaw, just don't compare to the other Sith Lords.
Creating a "Wound in the Force" was not a joke. It happened because of unprecedented bloodshed and loss of lives at the conclusion of the battle of Malachor V. Thanks to sinister plans of Darth Revan. I don't know of any battle prior to the Battle of Malachor V, which resulted in creation of Wounds in the Force.He choked a "harmless female officer." Only a morally bankrupt leader would do that.
The latest book by author, John Jackson Miller, on KOTOR confirms that Darth Revan actually ripped apart the lower jaw of his apprentice.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDElite's right, most of the other major Dark Lords not only have done worse things, but they also have a confirmed mentality surpassing Revan's.: Sidious, Vader, Malak, Nihilus, Bane, Krayt, Sadow, Kun. Hell even Tarkin has more.
Your denial of facts aren't working here. Revan was a morally bankrupt person during his reign as a Dark Lord. He may not be among the worst but he surely deserves a spot among top 20 at-least.
Sexy and Elite you make good points. I may be missing what you two are saying but it seems to me that you are taking away from how devastating the war was that Revan started.
Are you stating that Revan is not in the list because he was not fully responsible for the actions in the War he started? Or his war was not horrific? These are the reasons that LeGend I believe is stating Revan should be in the list because he is responsible and the war Revan started was horrifying.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Sexy and Elite you make good points. I may be missing what you two are saying but it seems to me that you are taking away from how devastating the war was that Revan started.
Legend mentioned one feat from the JCW,(the only war that he started) and that is having his soldiers kill jedi, yes it is an evil deed and is valid in this thread, but it is something that nearly every major sith has done and some have done it in a more evil way. Kun had the jedi he turned to the DS, go back to their masters and betray them. Order 66 is also more personal because a relationship grew between many of the clones and the jedi they served with. Revan joined the Mandalorian War after it began.
I would also like to mention that in the JDC the more devastating acts were committed by Malak. The glassing of Taris took place after Revan's mind was "wiped" and the glassing of Telos seems to be Malak acting on his own, which Canderous comments on saying "you can't blame Revan for that" or something along those lines.
Are you stating that Revan is not in the list because he was not fully responsible for the actions in the War he started
Or his war was not horrific?
These are the reasons that LeGend I believe is stating Revan should be in the list because he is responsible and the war Revan started was horrifying.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Legend mentioned one feat from the JCW,(the only war that he started) and that is having his soldiers kill jedi, yes it is an evil deed and is valid in this thread, but it is something that nearly every major sith has done and some have done it in a more evil way. Kun had the jedi he turned to the DS, go back to their masters and betray them. Order 66 is also more personal because a relationship grew between many of the clones and the jedi they served with. Revan joined the Mandalorian War after it began.I would also like to mention that in the JDC the more devastating acts were committed by Malak. The glassing of Taris took place after Revan's mind was "wiped" and the glassing of Telos seems to be Malak acting on his own, which Canderous comments on saying "you can't blame Revan for that" or something along those lines.
He didn't really commit any extremely evil deeds in the Jedi Civil War, other then committing treason, having his forces surprise attack a shipyard upon returning to the galaxy(i think, not sure if it was him specifically but probably knew it happened), and have his men hunt jedi. It's simply not evil enough for this list.
Malak made the JCW horrific not Revan and mandalorians made their horrific before Revan even joined the actual fighting he just returned the favor at Malachor.
I think your partially getting the MandoWar mixed up with the JCW. Legend's main point has been the battle of malachor (already addressed points on it) which was in the former war and I question if Revan was true sith lord yet but it doesnt really matter since he was clearly wasn't a jedi anymore.
Fair enough. Point taken. For the record again I do agree that Revan name should not be on the list.