Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthYou should absolutly look into Pantheism, especially Naturalistic Pantheism because what you're saying is very similar to that; its also pretty much what Bitchiness is talking about in the post above me. I'm pretty sure Carl Sagan was a proponent of it, though I might be wrong in that thought.
I've never even heard of the word "Pantheism". It's meaning sounds interesting to me though, and i'll read further on it. But one thing. I'm not really equating Nature and God, if that's how i came across, my bad. I mean that Nature is Nature and God is the human given name given to Nature to make it all more "inspiring"..if you may.
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthUnderstood. The complexity and elegance of Nature is indeed awesome, and it's not hard to see why--for many throughout history and across cultures--it brings God to mind. But to see God as Nature or call Nature "God" (and by "Nature" I mean the whole of the physical universe, not just trees, streams and animals on Earth) and nothing more makes, IMO, a small God. Again, it says nothing of "His" transcendence, that aspect of God which exists prior to and independent of "His" physical creation.
I've never even heard of the word "Pantheism". It's meaning sounds interesting to me though, and i'll read further on it. But one thing. I'm not really equating Nature and God, if that's how i came across, my bad. I mean that Nature is Nature and God is the human given name given to Nature to make it all more "inspiring"..if you may.
The mystical literature on any of the main religions tends to cover this Immanence-Transcendence thing fairly well.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There is a bigger God than Nature and that is Universe. It is unlimited, vast, brought us into existance and can destroy us without ever knowing (or caring) it did it.
I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God".
Re: Nature is God
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Can it be that be true? That Nature is God?I was thinking about this. And as we know Nature: "the element" is responsible for everything that's ever happened or has ever been created, ever. From the particles inside sub-atoms in the smallest grain of beach sand there is, to outer-space and beyond our galaxy and even the whole universe, and past that too, including time. All of everything that ever was, is, and will be was created, in essence by a natural force: Nature.
And to further explain, people will say God created Nature, that Mother Nature or "Gaia" is Nature but I think I believe that this Nature thing is what we humans refer to as God. Here's why I think so..
I believe people may call it God to put a name on it just to have some kind of controlled understanding of it cause of course not "knowing" breeds either madness or fear in a human's nature naturally, and we can't live like that.
Nature is the creator. And God is our name we gave it.
If you kinda look at it. You can replace the word God in the Bible with the word Nature for every time He's mentioned and it would perfectly be relevant and sensible to the whole story still..
That's my take.
Nature is the result of God's hand, but it is not God. Everything happends in a natural way but that is because of the organization and process that God put it in.
Re: Re: Nature is God
Originally posted by Tonks
Nature is the result of God's hand, but it is not God. Everything happends in a natural way but that is because of the organization and process that God put it in.
Ok now that's a good explanation. The best i've heard yet. But i still think that Nature's responsible for it all.
Ok. Let's take a Quasar. As we all know quasars are galaxies that are almost a billion light years away. (that's unimaginably far) with active centers that have super massive black holes which currently swallows suns 1000x's the size of our Sun at the rate of about 1000 suns a day. It's the most powerful known force in the universe. Lets say the quasar explodes. Ok, is that an act of nature? Yes.
The thing is, is that the event was purely random, it affected mankind in no way, we didn't even see it happen. It's as if it never happened. But you think it happened because of the organization and process that God put into it? Why would God make something like that far away for no reason?
Why would God make this Quasar explode if it will have no impact on us, positive or negative, when God, from what i understand, only and always does everything He does or what He needs to do only for his children, a.k.a. us, right?
God didn't make that quasar burst, neither did the organization and process He put into it. God doesn't do things senselessly. He's perfect right?
So i'm afraid you're incorrect. Nature made that quasar burst. Not a huge ghost that lives in the sky and sits on a throne on top of clouds.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God".
Really? Because exact causes of Big Bang are yet to be determined. Call Hawkins ASAP and tell him you have discovered the cause of Big Bang! And its ''nature''.
http://www.qsmithwmu.com/did_the_big_bang_have_a_cause.htm
The universe started without a reason.
I prefer this theory myself:
http://www.tellmehowto.net/howto/explain_the_big_bang_850
So a very intriguing documentary about it on the Science channel.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
http://www.qsmithwmu.com/did_the_big_bang_have_a_cause.htm
The universe started without a reason.
Assuming spacetime curves in just the right way
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I prefer this theory myself:
http://www.tellmehowto.net/howto/explain_the_big_bang_850
So a very intriguing documentary about it on the Science channel.
I do love it when legitimate science becomes indistinguishable from the ravings of smelly people that live under park benches.
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthSo you're basically saying that God is Nature and Nature is God, because if you're not, then you should revise the above statement.
I disagree. The theoretical "Big Bang" that created the universe was a natural event caused by Nature, or what we call "God".
Nature is apart of the Universe, so what Bitchiness is saying is that Nature is just a facet of the Universe itself, sort of like an Angel or perhaps another part of the trinity like the Son or the Spirit is a better analogy.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Really? Because exact causes of Big Bang are yet to be determined. Call Hawkins ASAP and tell him you have discovered the cause of Big Bang! And its ''nature''.
Um, I know that.. Why do you think I wrote the "Theoretical" Big Bang. As in theory? As in it's yet t.b.d.? How do we know there even was a "Big Bang"? 'S not what I'm saying. Whether it was a Big Bang or not, whether God did it or not, it was 100% a natural event that occurred at that moment. Which means Nature's responsible.
So you call Mr. Hawkins and tell him what I just wrote so that he can tell you that i'm correct. Post haste.
Re: Re: Re: Nature is God
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
The thing is, is that the event was purely random, it affected mankind in no way, we didn't even see it happen. It's as if it never happened. But you think it happened because of the organization and process that God put into it? Why would God make something like that far away for no reason?Why would God make this Quasar explode if it will have no impact on us, positive or negative, when God, from what i understand, only and always does everything He does or what He needs to do only for his children, a.k.a. us, right?
God didn't make that quasar burst, neither did the organization and process He put into it. God doesn't do things senselessly. He's perfect right?
So i'm afraid you're incorrect. Nature made that quasar burst. Not a huge ghost that lives in the sky and sits on a throne on top of clouds.
Yeah it did have an impact on us. If the Big Bang was correct, then it created this Earth for his children to reside on for a small portion of time. It benefitted us.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Nature is God
Originally posted by Tonks
Yeah it did have an impact on us. If the Big Bang was correct, then it created this Earth for his children to reside on for a small portion of time. It benefitted us.
The "Natural" phenomenon that was the "theoretical" "Big Bang" had an impact on us, yes, that that exploding Quasar, that i wrote about, in which you are currently referring to, that's currently billions and billions of light years away didn't impact us.
And the "Big Bang" didn't create Earth. Earth was born of a process of probably a collection of asteroids collisions that came together over multiple millions of years and "gravity" and heat and other asteroids and comets that carried steam water and more.
I wasn't just "Bang!" The the Earth shows up.
The Big Bang was the creation of the universe though. Which contains the billions of galaxies we have.
Originally posted by Tonks
I honestly don't think that science is ever going to know how the Earth was created.
We've got a few ideas. But without a time machine, it's impossible to be certain. Then again without a time machine it's impossible to be sure what happened before the invention of the camera.
Originally posted by inimalist
what hope does that give religion then?
I hear they've got records written by a dude who was there.