Given the amount of new money that's been printed...

I'm looking at your thoughts from a realistic point of view.

Voluntary taxation wouldn't work in a modern society, if anything you'd end up with a police department and fire department unable to cope with the needs of the society who do not want to feed into it in the first place. Sure, you can say "well, **** those people then, they get what they paid for, but then my house burns down or I get robbed because my neighbors just didn't want to give this month, yet I did." Then there's the 'he gave less, so I'm giving less' spiral down to nothing.

Fair enough, but please don't take the stance that I blindly dismissed you.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm looking at your thoughts from a realistic point of view.

Voluntary taxation wouldn't work in a modern society, if anything you'd end up with a police department and fire department unable to cope with the needs of the society who do not want to feed into it in the first place. Sure, you can say "well, **** those people then, they get what they paid for, but then my house burns down or I get robbed because my neighbors just didn't want to give this month, yet I did." Then there's the 'he gave less, so I'm giving less' spiral down to nothing.

Fair enough, but please don't take the stance that I blindly dismissed you.

As for that argument, that's a hypothetical that might happen, although Police and Fire Departments aren't necessarily the most costy of things. And I believe you give your fellow people too little credit. If you get together with your neighbours and talk about protection, I'd assume more than a few people would be willing to pay together to get protection. The police department and fire departments on the other hand would not be differently motivated I'd assume, if anything, better due to being an actual employee of someone. I mean, there are already voluntary firefighters all over the place. I just don't believe that being robbed of your money by the government so that that can pay for fire fighter services is the only way to ensure that protection...imo, not even the best or a very good one.

Listen, I'm open to anything that would lower my taxes, Uncle Sam takes a deep cut; I don't like it anymore than you do.

Police and Fire were just two examples of a much larger whole.

Originally posted by Robtard
Listen, I'm open to anything that would lower my taxes, Uncle Sam takes a deep cut; I don't like it anymore than you do.

Police and Fire were just two examples of a much larger whole.

Great, we are on the same page then.

Originally posted by Robtard
How would you propose a society pay for needs like police(the legal establishment as a whole, really) and firemen, if not taxes?

If you're refering to the example I gave, there wouldn't be any ''money'' to pay it with.
Their payment would come in the form of other goods and services.

Noone is saying this will WORK, but as a hypothetical example, that is how it would work.
Doctor offers healthcare, for his policing or firemen service, and the farmer offers food...etc.

Firemen and policement wouldn't really need money anyway in the examples above, since it would be worthless if the whole society is based on exchange of goods and services for other goods and services.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If you're refering to the example I gave, there wouldn't be any ''money'' to pay it with.
Their payment would come in the form of other goods and services.

Noone is saying this will WORK, but as a hypothetical example, that is how it would work.
Doctor offers healthcare, for his policing or firemen service, and the farmer offers food...etc.

Firemen and policement wouldn't really need money anyway in the examples above, since it would be worthless if the whole society is based on exchange of goods and services for other goods and services.

That would never work.

What if I am high school janitor and want to buy a laptop. Will I mop the floors of the guys houses that make each component of the laptop?

if you want to realise the sheer insanity of the monetary system then just watch'zeitgeist addendum'

you can watch it online.

Originally posted by KidRock
That would never work.

What if I am high school janitor and want to buy a laptop. Will I mop the floors of the guys houses that make each component of the laptop?

No, you suck it up and admit you have no useful skill and their starve to death or sell your body.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, you suck it up and admit you have no useful skill and their starve to death or sell your body.

Hah! Goddamn straight.

Originally posted by KidRock
That would never work.

What if I am high school janitor and want to buy a laptop. Will I mop the floors of the guys houses that make each component of the laptop?

It is actually, exactly what Symmetric Chaos said.

In society like that, you either have some useful skills, or you starve and have nothing.
End.

It would rid world of a lot of excess baggage.

Jesus. You people worry to much about this crap. I'm movin to Canada until America wisens up and introduces a flat tax plan. This Stimulus Bill will just give you nightmares if you worry to much about it. I mean, the goddamn gomment became bold enough to steal in front of our eyes. What does that tell you about our system now? They don't even have the courtesy to give us a reach around and divert our attention as they're ass raping us.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Jesus. You people worry to much about this crap. I'm movin to Canada until America wisens up and introduces a flat tax plan. This Stimulus Bill will just give you nightmares if you worry to much about it. I mean, the goddamn gomment became bold enough to steal in front of our eyes. What does that tell you about our system now? They don't even have the courtesy to give us a reach around and divert our attention as they're ass raping us.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Jesus. You people worry to much about this crap. I'm movin to Canada until America wisens up and introduces a flat tax plan. This Stimulus Bill will just give you nightmares if you worry to much about it. I mean, the goddamn gomment became bold enough to steal in front of our eyes. What does that tell you about our system now? They don't even have the courtesy to give us a reach around and divert our attention as they're ass raping us.

Canada doesn't have a flat tax, and the only reason we didnt have a stimulus bill was that our banks refused one

and while we are better poised than most western nations (our banks were considered too old fashioned prior to the crisis and are now an envy of the world) its going to be bad here.

Our politicians are no less corrupt either, we just don't have the same major journalism here to reveal it. There is an member of parliament who was found to have mafia ties, and the story was buried two days after it was released.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Jesus. You people worry to much about this crap. I'm movin to Canada until America wisens up and introduces a flat tax plan. This Stimulus Bill will just give you nightmares if you worry to much about it. I mean, the goddamn gomment became bold enough to steal in front of our eyes. What does that tell you about our system now? They don't even have the courtesy to give us a reach around and divert our attention as they're ass raping us.

You know a fair government where everything runs like a machine in the best interest of the people at all times?

Originally posted by chithappens
You know a fair government where everything runs like a machine in the best interest of the people at all times?

A lot of people do. They're just all wrong.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
But isn't the U.S. dollar backed by gold and/or other metals?

Yeah that is slowly fading away if not already. U.S is quickly running on fumes and other countries are realizing this day by day

The number one cause of inflation and devaluation of currency, the root cause of printing new money, is actually short selling of currency which can only happen if currency can be bought and sold without regulation from a private entity, such as a Central Bank.
Germany solved their hyperinflation during the depression by shutting down the central bank and printing its own money (the only good thing Hitler, and Andrew Jackson before him, ever did) so if Obama wants to avoid hyperinflation he should do what a lot of Americans have been saying and shut down the Federal Reserve and make short selling illegal. Theoretically the existence of a privately owned central bank violates the 13th amendment anyway.

Originally posted by chithappens
You know a fair government where everything runs like a machine in the best interest of the people at all times?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The number one cause of inflation and devaluation of currency, the root cause of printing new money, is actually short selling of currency which can only happen if currency can be bought and sold without regulation from a private entity, such as a Central Bank.
Germany solved their hyperinflation during the depression by shutting down the central bank and printing its own money (the only good thing Hitler, and Andrew Jackson before him, ever did) so if Obama wants to avoid hyperinflation he should do what a lot of Americans have been saying and shut down the Federal Reserve and make short selling illegal. Theoretically the existence of a privately owned central bank violates the 13th amendment anyway.

I couldn't agree more!

...now if I could only get you to revise your social policy perspectives....

Sorry, I'm a social democrat, I think evidence has shown that free market capitalism is as bad if not worse than communism.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Sorry, I'm a social democrat, I think evidence has shown that free market capitalism is as bad if not worse than communism.