Originally posted by Mindset
Never said he was, he doesn't have to be to dodge long enough to put Doc down.Did I say being as fast as Cap and Logan = being as fast as Spiderman? At least read my post. 😬
i did and i said 'how is being asquick as logan /cap = CLOSE to spidey?'
😉
but in marvel universe enhanced is short of superhuman isn't it?
deadpool has enchaned speed but not that in the leagues of spiderman
same as his strength
deadpool has enchaned strength perhaps in ecxces sof 800lbs while beyond peak not super compared to spideys 10 tons .
super>enhanced
sorry if this was pointless
Originally posted by ankur29
i did and i said 'how is being asquick as logan /cap = CLOSE to spidey?'
😉
Probably has something to do with each character reproducing practically every speed feat the character has and directly pushing Spiderman on the defensive end of fights due to their sheer speed alone. 😐
Originally posted by jinzin
Probably has something to do with each character reproducing practically every speed feat the character has and directly pushing Spiderman on the defensive end of fights due to their sheer speed alone. 😐
Yes, but that's because it's a comic. Looking at the statistics of the characters, Spidey blows them all away in the speed and agility area. However, because they want to make the fights between them interesting, they PIS him down to Wolverine and Caps level. Otherwise, the fight would be over before it started and that doesn't make for a good comic.
Sure, people can point to tons of feats in their favorite hero's comic and say look, "So and So" is dodging bullets, or doing flips, just like Spidey, therefore they are just as fast and agile. They can even point to fights between the two and say he's holding his own, so he must be as fast as Spidey. However, these are comics, They have to do this to keep it entertaining. They have to PIS Spidey's speed and agility, so that they can keep the story interesting. Otherwise, it would be over before it started and that doesn't make for a good comic. Unfortunately, this makes it tough to truly measure one agile hero's feats against another. This forces us to look at their stats, as well as their feats and, in this case, Spider-man's stats state that he is faster. That's what Spidey is all about, agility and speed. Sure, he gets hit, but that's to make the stories interesting. However, when it really counts and his life is on the line, Spidey always dodges. Wolverine, Captain America, Dead Pool, etc. don't have to dodge as much. They have other things to fall back on. Sure, the comics may show them dodging and weaving like Spidey, but that doesn't make them his equal, it just makes for a cool comic.
Sorry for the digression, as for the Doc Ock vs. Dead Pool fight. I give it to Dead Pool 8/10. All he needs in one good shot and the Doc is done and I think he could last long enough to pull this off the majority of the time. However, if the Doc did manage to get his tentacles on him, he'd be torn apart, or, if nice, beaten unconscious. I don't see this happening very often and that's why I give the majority to Dead Pool.
.......you know your entire arguement is to ignore comic book evidences and to simply view your version of spiderman capt and wolverine as the actual marvel characters, rather then what marvel them self have shown............
in other words just becauses you dont like what shown does not mean it aint true.
Originally posted by Serious Impact
Yes, but that's because it's a comic. Looking at the statistics of the characters, Spidey blows them all away in the speed and agility area. However, because they want to make the fights between them interesting, they PIS him down to Wolverine and Caps level. Otherwise, the fight would be over before it started and that doesn't make for a good comic.
Based on what?
Spiderman has had problems with major streets since his conception.
If they all have the same speed feats... What makes Spiderman so much better?
Originally posted by Serious Impact
Sure, people can point to tons of feats in their favorite hero's comic and say look, "So and So" is dodging bullets, or doing flips, just like Spidey, therefore they are just as fast and agile. They can even point to fights between the two and say he's holding his own, so he must be as fast as Spidey. However, these are comics, They have to do this to keep it entertaining.
And where else would you base what Spiderman is capible of FROM?
Originally posted by Serious Impact
They have to PIS Spidey's speed and agility, so that they can keep the story interesting. Otherwise, it would be over before it started and that doesn't make for a good comic.
BASED ON WHAT?
Originally posted by Serious Impact
Unfortunately, this makes it tough to truly measure one agile hero's feats against another.
Originally posted by Serious Impact
This forces us to look at their stats, as well as their feats and, in this case, Spider-man's stats state that he is faster.
It's obviously not enough.
Originally posted by Serious Impact
That's what Spidey is all about, agility and speed. Sure, he gets hit, but that's to make the stories interesting. However, when it really counts and his life is on the line, Spidey always dodges.
Yup, you're a hypocrite... Don't worry though, most people arguing in Spiderman's case when it comes to these things usually are.
Originally posted by Serious Impact
Wolverine, Captain America, Dead Pool, etc. don't have to dodge as much. They have other things to fall back on. Sure, the comics may show them dodging and weaving like Spidey, but that doesn't make them his equal, it just makes for a cool comic.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......you know your entire arguement is to ignore comic book evidences and to simply view your version of spiderman capt and wolverine as the actual marvel characters, rather then what marvel them self have shown............in other words just becauses you dont like what shown does not mean it aint true.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......you know your entire arguement is to ignore comic book evidences and to simply view your version of spiderman capt and wolverine as the actual marvel characters, rather then what marvel them self have shown............in other words just becauses you dont like what shown does not mean it aint true.
First off, I wasn't saying I like Spider-man any more than I like Wolverine, or any other character for that matter.
Second, I'm not trying to give you my "view" of what Spider-man is, or isn't. I'm simply pointing out what marvel has consistently said about Spider-man, since the moment he was conceived. Have they held to this on panel 100% of the time? Of course not, but they have never changed the fact that Spider-man has superhuman agility. Likewise, they have never once mentioned that Cap, Wolverine, or Dead Pool have superhuman agility. Peak human, superior hand-to-hand training, sure, but superhuman agility and speed, no.
Third, my argument wasn't to ignore anything. I'm not ignoring feats at all, I'm just not ignoring what Marvel says about their heroes either. They say Spider-man is 15 times more agile than a normal human. They don't say that about any of the other heroes we are comparing him too. How do you show that on panel? It's probably really hard to define "15 times more agile" on panel. Furthermore, the artist of another hero isn't referencing Spider-man's comics to see if his hero can or can't do what they want him to do. If they need Cap., or Wolverine to dodge a bullet, well then, they dodge the bullet. Normal humans in movies and comics dodge bullets all the time, does this make them as fast, or agile as Wolverine? Of course not, but it's been shown on panel. Comics aren't always going to be 100% consistent with the character's stats.
Finally, I wasn't trying to argue one way, or another that Spider-man is better, or can beat any of the heroes I've mentioned. There are plenty of other threads already out there and one in particular, after nearly a thousand pages, hasn't really gotten anywhere. I was just trying to point out that people say these other heroes are just as fast and agile as Spider-man because they can point to a few panels in comics that "prove" it. In reality, they don't really prove anything. The artist draws the hero doing what he/she needs to do in order to fit the plot. If this means Spider-man gets shot, or hit, even though he usually wouldn't, well then, it happens. This doesn't make him any slower, it just makes the scene more dramatic.
And I apologize for going off topic. Please return to the regularly scheduled topic at hand. This argument I am having really isn't going to go anywhere.
Originally posted by Serious Impact
First off, I wasn't saying I like Spider-man any more than I like Wolverine, or any other character for that matter.Second, I'm not trying to give you my "view" of what Spider-man is, or isn't. I'm simply pointing out what marvel has consistently said about Spider-man, since the moment he was conceived. Have they held to this on panel 100% of the time? Of course not, but they have never changed the fact that Spider-man has superhuman agility. Likewise, they have never once mentioned that Cap, Wolverine, or Dead Pool have superhuman agility. Peak human, superior hand-to-hand training, sure, but superhuman agility and speed, no.
Third, my argument wasn't to ignore anything. I'm not ignoring feats at all, I'm just not ignoring what Marvel says about their heroes either. They say Spider-man is 15 times more agile than a normal human. They don't say that about any of the other heroes we are comparing him too. How do you show that on panel? It's probably really hard to define "15 times more agile" on panel. Furthermore, the artist of another hero isn't referencing Spider-man's comics to see if his hero can or can't do what they want him to do. If they need Cap., or Wolverine to dodge a bullet, well then, they dodge the bullet. Normal humans in movies and comics dodge bullets all the time, does this make them as fast, or agile as Wolverine? Of course not, but it's been shown on panel. Comics aren't always going to be 100% consistent with the character's stats.
Finally, I wasn't trying to argue one way, or another that Spider-man is better, or can beat any of the heroes I've mentioned. There are plenty of other threads already out there and one in particular, after nearly a thousand pages, hasn't really gotten anywhere. I was just trying to point out that people say these other heroes are just as fast and agile as Spider-man because they can point to a few panels in comics that "prove" it. In reality, they don't really prove anything. The artist draws the hero doing what he/she needs to do in order to fit the plot. If this means Spider-man gets shot, or hit, even though he usually wouldn't, well then, it happens. This doesn't make him any slower, it just makes the scene more dramatic.
And I apologize for going off topic. Please return to the regularly scheduled topic at hand. This argument I am having really isn't going to go anywhere.
yes Logan actaully has been stated with superhuman agility and speed so your wrong
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6473/wolverinesabilitieswt6.jpg
Not that it matter. We were discussing speed. agility has nothing to do with discussing who faster.
ps: Logan enver on pannel been stated with peak-human stats. That was some shit you came up with your self or fallowing a very bad misconcpetion and stating things about a character you clearly don't have much knowledge on.
Originally posted by ankur29Touche uhuh
i did and i said 'how is being asquick as logan /cap = CLOSE to spidey?'
😉
As for the enhanced talk, as far as I know there is no enhanced level, anything beyond peak human should be superhuman.
Spiderman isn't as fast and strong as Namor, but both are still considered superhuman.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
You dont need to right an entire page everytime you post. You could have easily done your entire arguement in 4 sentences. Your just wasting other time and your own energyyes Logan actaully has been stated with superhuman agility and speed so your wrong
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6473/wolverinesabilitieswt6.jpgNot that it matter. We were discussing speed. agility has nothing to do with discussing who faster.
ps: Logan enver on pannel been stated with peak-human stats. That was some shit you came up with your self or fallowing a very bad misconcpetion and stating things about a character you clearly don't have much knowledge on.
logans official bio's dont say superhuman , it says enhanced i think 😖 it also says a description of his powers at start of his comics , i dont think they say superhuman either
the pic you posted is from marvel vs DC non cannon
Originally posted by Serious Impact
First off, I wasn't saying I like Spider-man any more than I like Wolverine, or any other character for that matter.Second, I'm not trying to give you my "view" of what Spider-man is, or isn't. I'm simply pointing out what marvel has consistently said about Spider-man, since the moment he was conceived. Have they held to this on panel 100% of the time? Of course not, but they have never changed the fact that Spider-man has superhuman agility. Likewise, they have never once mentioned that Cap, Wolverine, or Dead Pool have superhuman agility. Peak human, superior hand-to-hand training, sure, but superhuman agility and speed, no.
Third, my argument wasn't to ignore anything. I'm not ignoring feats at all, I'm just not ignoring what Marvel says about their heroes either. They say Spider-man is 15 times more agile than a normal human. They don't say that about any of the other heroes we are comparing him too. How do you show that on panel? It's probably really hard to define "15 times more agile" on panel. Furthermore, the artist of another hero isn't referencing Spider-man's comics to see if his hero can or can't do what they want him to do. If they need Cap., or Wolverine to dodge a bullet, well then, they dodge the bullet. Normal humans in movies and comics dodge bullets all the time, does this make them as fast, or agile as Wolverine? Of course not, but it's been shown on panel. Comics aren't always going to be 100% consistent with the character's stats.
Finally, I wasn't trying to argue one way, or another that Spider-man is better, or can beat any of the heroes I've mentioned. There are plenty of other threads already out there and one in particular, after nearly a thousand pages, hasn't really gotten anywhere. I was just trying to point out that people say these other heroes are just as fast and agile as Spider-man because they can point to a few panels in comics that "prove" it. In reality, they don't really prove anything. The artist draws the hero doing what he/she needs to do in order to fit the plot. If this means Spider-man gets shot, or hit, even though he usually wouldn't, well then, it happens. This doesn't make him any slower, it just makes the scene more dramatic.
And I apologize for going off topic. Please return to the regularly scheduled topic at hand. This argument I am having really isn't going to go anywhere.
Good post, but I dont think they're listening honey... The problem is there always seems to be a little bit of fanboyism involved when debating particular posters fav characters. I myself have always considered Spiderman to be faster and more agile than any of the aforementioned, thats just the interpretation I get from his powerset and on panel fights...yet as u stated its difficult to weigh Spidermans speed against Wolverine because of the pis that is always there, like u said it makes the fight more interesting
Originally posted by ankur29
logans official bio's dont say superhuman , it says enhanced i think 😖 it also says a description of his powers at start of his comics , i dont think they say superhuman eitherthe pic you posted is from marvel vs DC non cannon
not to mention each hand book says something different. For starters Hulk encyclopedia state wolverine with superhuman stats, not that it matter sinces hand books equal crap.
small describition of his most common abilties, not all of them. he gets his superhuman stats from his healing factor, training and enhancements given to him from weapon x.
actaully Marvel vs DC is cannon and it stats>>>>>>any hand book.
Wow, I think I touched a nerve here. 🙂
First off, I'm sorry for the long winded posts. I tried to warn people when I joined this forum that I can get a bit wordy. However, I do it because I like to be thorough. I wish I could do it in less words, but, sadly, that's not my nature.
As for the argument, well, the link you left me to look at battlehammer didn't lead anywhere. I'll be happy to check out official sites with stats anytime. I do have the old role playing books, which list their stats. It lists Spidey as being more agile than Wolverine (Amazing, class 50 vs. Remarkable, class 30). Wolverine, however, is a better fighter (never debated this) with Incredible vs. Remarkable (class 40 vs. class 30).
I had another long winded explanation of my point, but decided to spare everyone the mind numbingly long posts. Besides, I'll be heading to Japan to see family in a couple days, so I won't have nearly the free time needed for my long winded remarks. I've enjoyed the debate.
