I'm just swinging by to put into the PC debate. I think you both have pretty good points and often it depends on the context. Anti-PC'ers definitely like to overplay the restrictions that "PC language" enforces, but at the same time, I've definitely seen the extreme form of PC existing. I remember this time when, as part of a discussion, I offered the side of the argument that conservative hardline churches should have the right to refuse to service a gay marriage. Now, I made it very, very clear that I didn't actually believe that myself, and that I was just trying to open the debate up to view other perspectives and how they how, and how they don't work. Yet all I got were my friends - yes, actual friends - talking over me about how they now saw me as less of a person for even mentioning that opposing view as a concept, as if that view held literally no ground and anybody who even mentioned its existence in any other way than it being entirely negative way was scum o' the earth.
They offered no arguments as to why it was bad, they just kept talking over me saying how they were disappointed in me, despite me constantly saying I didn't hold that view, just that it existed and that I wanted to hear the counter-argument (other than "anyone who believes that is a piece of shit", which is literally not an argument, just a strawman).
So yeah, there is a very close-minded culture going on there. The funny thing is, most of those people weren't fervent social activists or anything, just normal people. I've noticed more and more that the left is exactly the same as the right in its use of line-towing and sacred cows. You have to agree with everything that's currently in vogue to believe in, otherwise you're a horrible bigot who wants to lynch literally everyone who isn't straight, white, cis and male. Discussion is being limited, and echo chambers are the most prevalent platforms. Preaching to the choir is all that is allowed by both sides.
I feel that my beliefs are overall pretty far left, but I don't want to associate with the current political left in many ways due to how conformist and totalitarian it is in its enforcing of specific beliefs. "You're either with us or you're against us" is a phrase that comes to mind.
Originally posted by Scribble
I'm just swinging by to put into the PC debate. I think you both have pretty good points and often it depends on the context. Anti-PC'ers definitely like to overplay the restrictions that "PC language" enforces, but at the same time, I've definitely seen the extreme form of PC existing. I remember this time when, as part of a discussion, I offered the side of the argument that conservative hardline churches should have the right to refuse to service a gay marriage. Now, I made it very, very clear that I didn't actually believe that myself, and that I was just trying to open the debate up to view other perspectives and how they how, and how they don't work. Yet all I got were my friends - yes, actual friends - talking over me about how they now saw me as less of a person for even mentioning that opposing view as a concept, as if that view held literally no ground and anybody who even mentioned its existence in any other way than it being entirely negative way was scum o' the earth.They offered no arguments as to why it was bad, they just kept talking over me saying how they were disappointed in me, despite me constantly saying I didn't hold that view, just that it existed and that I wanted to hear the counter-argument (other than "anyone who believes that is a piece of shit", which is literally not an argument, just a strawman).
So yeah, there is a very close-minded culture going on there. The funny thing is, most of those people weren't fervent social activists or anything, just normal people. I've noticed more and more that the left is exactly the same as the right in its use of line-towing and sacred cows. You have to agree with everything that's currently in vogue to believe in, otherwise you're a horrible bigot who wants to lynch literally everyone who isn't straight, white, cis and male. Discussion is being limited, and echo chambers are the most prevalent platforms. Preaching to the choir is all that is allowed by both sides.
I feel that my beliefs are overall pretty far left, but I don't want to associate with the current political left in many ways due to how conformist and totalitarian it is in its enforcing of specific beliefs. "You're either with us or you're against us" is a phrase that comes to mind.
sounds like your friends are hyper-progressive jerkoffs and you're using them as anecdotal evidence.
Also a callback to the other day, I love how that "Both atheists and religious people annoy me" cartoon somehow finds a way to not only come across as superior to religious people and atheists, but also the people in the middle. That's narcissism delivered as humour at its finest. And yet somehow its pedalled out time and time again, as if it actually constitutes any merit or holds any weight as either a piece of art or political/social commentary.
I only mention this because I've seen it used as the only argument to people who try to mediate both sides. There's no debate, it's literally just "hurrdy durrdy he sed he wonts both sidez 2 think aboit eech udders opinyans, he must fink hes better than me!?!?!? Good thing I have this handy cartoon that nullifies his argument entirely. Next!"
Not to mention that half of my personal beliefs are hyper-progressive jerkoff beliefs as well. That fact (which is a fact, just look at literally any debate I've had with Surtur in the past) doesn't stop me from becoming worried about a culture where mistakes or slips of the tongue can ruin lives and careers.
sorry you don't get insta-props for 'both sides' arguments that lack substance.
the meme you mentioned (i posted it here) mocks the weak 'i'm above all sides' debate-squashing that is so trendy these days.
so someone's like "kill all teh gheys" and i come it like "that's dumb and you're dumb" and then comes the self-enlightened bothsider to tell me how we're both just as bad. bleh 👇
I don't want props. I don't care about the arguments, about who wins, who loses, who does what, honestly. I just think the world would work better if people tried harder to relate to and empathise with people more. It's not about trying to be 'above' people. It's about wanting people to move beyond the tedious and unhelpful tribe mentality that is modern (and historical) politics.
The meme you posted was trash, btw. It creates a strawman in an effort to quash opposing views by passing them off as coming from those who think they're 'above' everybody, which often isn't the case.
Your last example there is also trash. Think of something far less incendiary next time, then maybe people will start taking you seriously. I'm surprised you didn't jump straight to Hitler, actually, so maybe kind of sort of well done?