Originally posted by Scribble
Since I have spent time studying suicide, more than most (and certainly more than anyone I know), I will allow myself to go on a bit here, because I might be able to clear a few things up.You are right to bring up families. I definitely think if you have children or other people that you are an active caregiver for, then you have a responsibility to stay alive, even if life is painful or difficult, until your dependents are no longer dependent upon you.
Otherwise, people have the right to choose when they die, and they should have access to that, safely and painlessly.
Life is not good for a lot of people. No employment prospects, socially incapable, riddled with neuroses and pain. Some combination thereof, or all of them, as well as plenty other circumstances that make life a constant form of torture.
Sure, it will be hard on their loved ones if they die, but it's not their loved ones' choice. It's the individual's life. Their parents brought them into the world, they made the choice to have and raise a child, they don't get to choose when the person dies, too. It's ultimately selfish for parents to want their child to keep living if their child has eventually found themselves tired of life or simply unable to continue with any happiness, or if their child is in great pain.
Part of the reason suicide is so taboo is because there is no access to safe and painless ways to opt out of life. This results in several issues, which I won't go into too much detail about (it's an enormous topic, in the same way that death towers over life), but I'll outline some of the important ones briefly.
[b]One:
It means that society innately sees suicide as a bad thing. If it is illegal, most people will just assume this means it is a bad thing. Also, most healthy, happy people assume that everyone has the lust for life that they do, and can't comprehend the mind of someone who sees life as a boring, painful drag that isn't worth it.Two: Because it is not legal and accessible, as well as socially shunned, it usually happens suddenly. People do not get the chance to say goodbye, and the suicide never gets to express their intentions because they are worried that people will try to stop them, locking them up if need be. Thus suicide is generally lonely for the one doing it, and sudden for those around them. With access to opt-out-of-life methods of euthanasia, the suicide is able to make their peace with their loved ones and leave having said goodbye.
Three: 'Illegal' methods of suicide are painful and scary. Most suicide methods are incredibly painful, as well as usually not guaranteed to work. Suicide by cutting is rarely lethal and is very painful, hanging often results in brain damage (making life even worse for the survivor), poison is incredibly painful, drowning requires excess dedication due to how hard it is to make it work, setting oneself on fire is effective but the most painful of all (and the worst case for survivors, left with extreme burns). Jumping from a height isn't even guaranteed to work, and often requires too much gumption to pull off, as well as leaving the suicide's final moments those of absolute terror. Suicide by opiate overdose is generally the best method, but such drugs are generally illegal and hard to come by, and it takes long enough to be fatal that it can be interrupted. If safe, legal euthanasia via opiate overdose was available, the suicide will pass over peacefully and calmly, in physical pleasure; perhaps, even, surrounded by their family and friends. I can think of no better way to go.
Most people do not commit suicide because they are 'sad'. Sad doesn't even begin to cut it when it comes to the agonising psychological pain that makes suicide an appealing and often rational solution. Some say that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem", but to the suicide or suicidal ideator, life is the temporary problem, and suicide is the only fit solution. It's hard to get into the mind of a suicidal person if you haven't experienced it yourself, for sure; but to dismiss it as something that someone would do just because they're "sad" is naive. Life is full of pain of all stripes, and for many people it is simply too much to bear, especially when they find life boring, useless, pointless, painful, unpleasant, uncomfortable or angering, or a combination thereof.
To keep such a person alive because you think there is "so much to live for" is immoral. To many people, life is not so full of opportunity and beauty, and fairly so. This is an ugly, unpleasant world, limited in scope and dull in its repetition.
Personal perspective: I was depressed from an early age. I didn't fit in, I found social life unbearable and irritating. As I reached mid-teens, I was beset by further mental issues that decreased my quality of life. I wanted to die, and with good reason: I saw no hope for things to get better. But I didn't commit suicide, because maybe, just maybe, the cult of grinning martyrs around me were correct, and that life is good, and it does get better... if you try to make it better. You have to try, right? Try your best and you will succeed. Smash cut to me, right now: after having tried my best again and again, all I have learned is that life is boring, pointless, painful and not worth living, and that life will never get better. I was right all along. If I had been allowed to commit suicide earlier, I wouldn't have had to suffer to such a silly and unnecessary degree, just to appease others. Yet even now, a lucid and rational adult, I am not allowed to opt out of life in any safe way. It is immoral.
I am but one person with this experience. Many also share it, but many just grit their teeth and keep living because they have no other choice but to do just that. All because do-gooders think that 'one day things will get better', or that 'people will miss you', or whatever. The truth: most people's lives throughout human history have been unpleasant and painful. We continue to exist because our infantile biology commands us to, not because 'life is worth living' or what have you. For a long time, the only reason many people didn't kill themselves is because they thought they'd go to Hell for it. This idea of a 'better life' is mostly a bourgeois modern construct, based in nothing but material pleasure or some misplaced spiritual fantasy. For those born to meagre means and afflicted with physical and/or psychological pain, as well as other forms of degeneration or displeasure, the 'better life' they strive for is simply not possible. Many such people come to realise this, or perhaps they knew it all along. Life does not have the capability to be 'good' or even bearable for all people. That is a wishful myth, and a dangerous and foolish one to boot, founded in empty lies, conjured from nothing. In fact, there is no evidence to say that life is good at all.
The position that those who wish to die are placed in within modern society is a cruel and callous prison; they are made to feel ashamed of or irresponsible for their desires because of the selfish people around them who think they know better. If suicide is selfish, then so are those who keep the suicides from achieving peace. The unshackled, rational individual has a right to choose when they die, and it should be legal, safe and painless.
Edit: If you want to read further on the subject then I really do recommend the Sarah Perry book I mentioned before, "Every Cradle is a Grave." It covers a lot of this stuff, but in more detail, and with academic and scientific data referenced. Thomas Ligotti's "The Conspiracy Against the Human Race" also contains some similar observations, albeit in a highly dark and blackly comic fashion. Both also cover the topic of antinatalism, another incredibly controversial topic. They're both entertaining and informative works. [/B]