Blood-lusted Spider-Man vs Sabretooth

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes they were. reptedly shown in there fights the fisk was just as strong. fisk dident seem to retain such strength after the silver age however. actaully fisk seemed stronger at times

In the early days when Spiderman fought Fisk, Marvel didn't have a clearly defined strength level for either character. All that was clear was that Spiderman was definitely superstrong and Fisk was far stronger than an average man. So in those early stories it was perfectly feasable to show the 2 as being evenly matched, strength wise. Since then Marvel came up with different strength classifications for characters-stating that Spiderman has 10ton strength, while Fisk is peak human, able to lift round the 800 lb mark. As a result, Marvels official line is that Spiderman always held back fighting KP, to avoid accidentally killing him. A bit like how in Wolverines 1st appearance he couldn't cut Savage Hulk, but now has no trouble cutting any incarnation of Hulk-with the official explanation for Wolvie's inability to cut Hulk in that 1st fight being Hulk's HF healing him up so quick, that it looked like he wasn't cut.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, you showed one panel where Fisk grabbed his arms.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3047/feat15fight1ni5.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8949/feat15fight2fz9.jpg

Where's his equivalent strength here?

And again, you seem to be ignoring the fact that Spiderman holds back against humans. Unless you think Doc Ock and Vulture have the same level of durability as Vermin and Doc Connors.

how does thoses scans help your point? In it spiderman even comment that one hit almosted ended him.

his one punch sends spiderman flying.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes and spiderman isent able to over power him. I believe he gets out by kicking fisk in the face.

how does thoses scans help your point? In it spiderman even comment that one hit almosted ended him.

his one punch sends spiderman flying.

It helped my point because Spiderman could have koed Fisk in one more hit, he wasn't even trying to fight Fisk and he still beat him

Also, he said might have koed him, again I see you ignore the fact Pete is holding back while Fisk is trying to kill.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
In the early days when Spiderman fought Fisk, Marvel didn't have a clearly defined strength level for either character. All that was clear was that Spiderman was definitely superstrong and Fisk was far stronger than an average man. So in those early stories it was perfectly feasable to show the 2 as being evenly matched, strength wise. Since then Marvel came up with different strength classifications for characters-stating that Spiderman has 10ton strength, while Fisk is peak human, able to lift round the 800 lb mark. As a result, Marvels official line is that Spiderman always held back fighting KP, to avoid accidentally killing him. A bit like how in Wolverines 1st appearance he couldn't cut Savage Hulk, but now has no trouble cutting any incarnation of Hulk-with the official explanation for Wolvie's inability to cut Hulk in that 1st fight being Hulk's HF healing him up so quick, that it looked like he wasn't cut.

I agree you are completely correct. early days there strength was not defined he was shown much stronger. After it was defined fisk strength hasent been shown to be nearly as high.

Originally posted by Mindset
Hard to tell if Spiderman is overpowering him from the one panel where Kingping just grabbed his arms...

It helped my point because Spiderman could have koed Fisk in one more hit, he wasn't even trying to fight Fisk and he still beat him

Originally posted by Battlehammer
not wanting to fight some one doesent equate to pulling your punches, sabertooth dident want to fight spiderman but a doubt he pulled his punches when they fought.

Originally posted by Mindset
Great example, a cold bloodied killer compared to someone who refuses to kill...

however as buster1 pointed out it was reconnt into spiderman doing so.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
doesent really change the fact there no indicater spiderman pulled his punches.

however as buster1 pointed out it was reconnt into spiderman doing so.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, like I said, he pulled his punches.

so is that really a good indicater for how effective his blood lust is?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes but it was reconnt into him doing so. Classic King pin was originally shown to be spiderman level in strength, but that was just all reconnt into spiderman holding back inorder for it to make senses. so an even more ehanced version of spiderman beating king pin doesent really seem that impressive does it? I mean he was even stronger and faster then his classic levels by quit e a bit. Him being pissed off really wouldent have effected the out come at all.

You have yet to prove they were the same strength, posting one panel of him grabbing his arms is not proof.

I have, however, shown Spiderman to have KP beaten in 2 punches.

So it looks like he has always had the strength to beat Fisk w/o even trying to kill him. Which means even w/o his upgrades he has the power to kill Fisk.

Is there something hard about posting what you need to say in one post?

Originally posted by Mindset
You have yet to prove they were the same strength, posting one panel of him grabbing his arms is not proof.

I have, however, shown Spiderman to have KP beaten in 2 punches.

So it looks like he has always had the strength to beat Fisk w/o even trying to kill him. Which means even w/o his upgrades he has the power to kill Fisk.

Is there something hard about posting what you need to say in one post?

oh and the very scan you posted has spiderman stating if he hadent block King Pin punch that could have been the end of him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes it was reconnt to be this way. so how does an upgraded version of spiderman beating kngpin indicate how effective blood lusted spiderman is?

oh and the very scan you posted has spiderman stating if he hadent block King Pin punch that could have been the end of him.

Spiderman was never a killer, obviously he wasn't trying to kill Fisk. I showed you Spiderman beating Fisk in two punches, if he was trying to kill him he could have. Therefore a Spiderman willing to kill could have killed him, what is so hard to understand?

I said a bloodlusted Spiderman fighting like he did in BnB, would be effective, but obviously you completely missed the point. He was able to fight with skill w/o holding back. Any version not holding back can beat Fisk as the versions that have held back have beat him as well.

Yea, you've already mentioned that, the fact is he was not prepared for the attack and he has taken Fisk hits w/o being koed, in addition to that he beat Fisk in 2 punches.

You still haven't proven anything, btw.

Originally posted by Mindset
. . .

Spiderman was never a killer, obviously he wasn't trying to kill Fisk. I showed you Spiderman beating Fisk in two punches, if he was trying to kill him he could have. Therefore a Spiderman willing to kill could have killed him, what is so hard to understand?

I said a bloodlusted Spiderman fighting like he did in BnB, would be effective, but obviously you completely missed the point. He was able to fight with skill w/o holding back. Any version not holding back can beat Fisk as the versions that have held back have beat him as well.

Yea, you've already mentioned that, the fact is he was not prepared for the attack and he has taken Fisk hits w/o being koed, in addition to that he beat Fisk in 2 punches.

You still haven't proven anything, btw.

No I get the point. My point is how good of a feat is that when he was already physicallly superior to King Pin before two upgrades. He as already a good deal faster now he be far faster. Him messing up King Pin really shouldent be hard, seeing as how King Pin would befar to slow. Him being blood lusted and beating King Pin asses doesent prove he fights effective while he Blood Lust, just prove he was that much superior to King Pin that King Pin couldent even react which is not the cases in this fight.

he was prepared enough to block the attack. Fisk has taken his hits with out being KOed. yea and Fisk almost beat him in one Punch.

whats there two prove? Fisk is inferior to spiderman, Buster1 put it perfectly, there characters were not defined in the beggining, so they simply changed it to spiderman holding back against fisk to explain why they even had fights

Creed.

Tooth is too much.

Spider-man easily
based off most of his tops feats, Spidey is:
1. Stronger
2. Faster
3. More agile

and has spider-sense which is the killer power here.

Originally posted by h1a8
Spider-man easily
based off most of his tops feats, Spidey is:
1. Stronger
2. Faster
3. More agile

and has spider-sense which is the killer power here.

^He means by the face value description of what class 100 means.

Just basically, being able to lift/press 100 tons.

Spidey has lifted things that would be 100 tons.

But we all know 'class 100' is a huge misnomer. It's more like class 100,000 at absolute most generous minimum.

Well if Wolverine can lift 2 tons, Spider-Man can lift 100, it can't be both ways.