Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Don't make me laugh.Don't make me laugh.
ROTS Obi Wan could probably take Maul, and ANH Obi Wan is probably slightly weaker in sabers but more powerful in the force, and the common stereotype here is that Maul sucks in force, so assuming that that's true Ben wins.
So is CW Obi Wan > ANH Obi Wan?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallWithout resorting to how you feel on the issue, direct us to a source that says ANH Obi-Wan is more powerful than his RoTS self.
ROTS Obi Wan could probably take Maul, and ANH Obi Wan is probably slightly weaker in sabers but more powerful in the force, and the common stereotype here is that Maul sucks in force, so assuming that that's true Ben wins.So is CW Obi Wan > ANH Obi Wan?
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Without resorting to how you feel on the issue, direct us to a source that says ANH Obi-Wan is more powerful than his RoTS self.
People improve over time. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but ANH Obi Wan is 57, which isn't too old given that 54 year old Mace was stronger than his 41 (or somewhere around that) year old TPM version. He might be a tad weaker given that he's a little bit out of practice (but he still probably trained; what else is there to do?) but do force powers depend on physical strength? No, so logically he'd improve over time.
And Luke might be able to take Ventress...
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think sum1 quoted that Obi says hes become more powerful since ROTS. From ANH revised novel maybe..I think Luke should at least be a match for Ventress though.
Where is this stated? And what makes you think that Luke can take her on?
Both those statements support my "Crack is bad" campaign. Please, take the time to know where your kids are and what they're doing.
Originally posted by The Ground
Where is this stated? And what makes you think that Luke can take her on?Both those statements support my "Crack is bad" campaign. Please, take the time to know where your kids are and what they're doing.
I said "i think" so stop going on about crack. If I remember correct it was darthsith19 who quoted Obi1 had grown more powerful since ROTS and he quoted it from ANH novel I THINK!
As for Luke taking Ventress. Well id like to think a Jedi Knight with the Second highest potential of ALL Star Wars charcters who overcame Vader in a Saber fight(by giving into darkside, but still its VADER) should be able to take out Ventress
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I said "i think" so stop going on about crack. If I remember correct it was darthsith19 who quoted Obi1 had grown more powerful since ROTS and he quoted it from ANH novel I THINK!As for Luke taking Ventress. Well id like to think a Jedi Knight with the Second highest potential of ALL Star Wars charcters who overcame Vader in a Saber fight(by giving into darkside, but still its VADER) should be able to take out Ventress
No canon here. Maul and Ventress have both demonstrated lightsaber skill and speed, and ANH Obi-Wan only defeated A'sharad Hett. Since we know little about how fast and strong he was, you cannot say that he has grown even more powerful. Maul would gut Kenobi and would proceed to help Ventress. As for Luke, I can't quite say if he could kill her, he does have the advantage, but I am sure that she can hold her own until Maul comes.
Ventress would pimp-slap Luke. Chick took on 4 or 5 jedi knights at once and beat them down. She guts him and goes to help take out Kenobi, whose defensive style won't allow him to beat Maul any time soon. (if at all)
Edit: plus even Sidious was impressed by Ventress' lightsaber abilities. "The child's skills with a lightsaber are most impressive. You have found a promising disciple, my apprentice. She shall serve us well."
Obi-Wan's abilities within lightsaber combat have severely deteriorated from the point of RotS to ANH, naturally; there is no indication that his combat-oriented skills in force expanded, either. With the exception of the immortality technique (if you want to call it that way), no superior abilities in the force were witnessed: he was out of touch and out of shape, as he did not train for a very long time and lacked sufficient power and skill in the force to make up for that fact. Aside from the way he was busy training Qui-Gon's spirit, I think (I'm not sure) that he did not actively train because that would inevitably reveal the existence of a powerful force user upon Tatooine, and thus attract the attention of the Empire to him, and, more importantly, to Luke. Mace was only a 'bit' younger, but he was both more skilled in the force and had the luxury of being able to train freely; he was in top shape while Obi-Wan was most definitely not.
During their duel, Obi-Wan and Vader were rather evenly matched, with maybe a slight advantage in Vader's favor. Both of them were not in their prime, lightsaber-wise, with inferior physical condition and capacity for speed: on the other hand, Maul is a beast, tremendously fast and powerful. During the duel of the Maul clone and Vader, Maul displayed superior speed to him: that would insinuate that he is also faster than Obi-Wan, probably by a very considerable amount (If X is faster than Y, and Y is faster than Z, then X is faster than Z). Maul also has tremendous technical skill that easily surpasses the untrained and rusty Obi-Wan's, and has the ability to simply physically bully Obi-Wan into submission.
His skills in Teras Kasi are perhaps the finest in the saga, and could be used as a supplement to his other skills in order to physically dominate and, essentially, brutalize Obi-Wan. The old man wouldn't know what hit him. To summarize it, he's facing an opponent who is faster, stronger, more technically proficient, and has considerable skill in unarmed combat. He gets raped.
Luke gets owned by Ventress. 'Nuff said.
Originally posted by The Ground
DP, what you're basing your argument on is that Vader > Ventress. Proof?Which is BS, because Luke never beat Vader, he was holding back instead of killing his son.
So waht you think Ventress is a match for Vader now?? You do chat crapdnt you?!
Theres no proof Vader was significantly holding back during his duel with Luke.. All we know is He wasnt going "All Out" whilst Luke was giving into his rage..
Since there people who say Obi Wan powers did not advance by ANH from ROTS what proof do we have of that? We certainly know that Vader was more powerful in the force than Anakin. Why didn't Vader simply use the force to kill Obi Wan if Obi Wan powers had deteriorated as much as some are insinuating.
He use it on Luke in ESB but in ROTJ he did not use in on Luke at all.
Vader probably wanted to outduel Obi1 for personal reasons..
and he didnt use the Force on Luke in ROTJ, because that wuldnt acheive anything.. He was trying to turn him, not show off how easily he can own him with the force.
I agree with master crimzon about Maul taking the old man quite comftorbly. Maul was a beast end of the day. But im not convinced Ventress takes Luke.
His training was complete, according to Yoda & Vader. Thats 2 in universe characters confirming that. So he must have had some skill, and obviously has a lot of raw power.