Originally posted by SnakeEyes
I'm all for subjectivity - just asking for a reason is all. If you don't want to give one, that's cool, I'd just be interested to hear what your criticisms are. Didn't mean to offend, sorry.I guess it's just a pet peeve when people take something or someone that is widely accepted as talented/good/quality and say that it's awful. Like, for example, when people say "The Dark Knight is a terrible film" and provide no reasoning whatsoever, my first thought is going to be that that person doesn't have a good reason, despite subjectivity.
However, if they provide at least a bit of insight as to why they think or feel something is bad, I'm all ears.
No offense taken at all. I was just too tired to explain in full my reasoning last night.
Originally posted by Impediment
Also, jaden101, there is no need for such words. Stop antagonizing.
I'm just pulling his leg, Boss Hogg.
How am I wrong for saying that Leo DiCaprio is a bad actor? Just trying to get some clarification, is all.
How about the films that I mentioned that he was nothing short of exceptional in.
Granted, Parker is right about him being annoying in his earlier movies (Titanic and most stuff previous to it) but he has become frankly brilliant in many of his movies since. As I stated previously, there are very few actors who could portray a character with such sheer intensity as he did in Shutter Island.
he seems to have gotten better and probably will over time as well like Tom Cruise did.
Odd that you would say that given that Tom Cruise's best roles and performances were relatively early in his career.
Born on the 4th of July
Rain Man
The Colour of Money
Then on to
A Few Good Men
Interview with the Vampire
The Firm
It's only once you get passed the mid 90's to about 2004 when it goes to shit with Austin Powers and Mission Impossible.
Now we're subjected to blatant shite like Knight and Day.
I do agree that DiCaprio is improving with age though. I also think he needs the right directors to get the best from him (Much as Edward Norton does) other wise he is subject to picking bad roles such as in the Quick and the Dead (although I admit I actually like this film)
I guess you and SnakeEyes just have different eyes than I do when viewing Leo.
I will, however, go on record and say the Leo did an amazing job as a retard in "What's eating Gilbert Grape?".
Leo, in my opinion, is an overactor to the 5th Power.
Shutter Island was a good film, but I just don't share your enthusiasm with his performance.
Also, I have yet to see Inception. My dad downloaded a copy of it and I plan to view it this weekend when I'm alone at the house.
Oh, and as far as the ending being ambiguous,
Spoiler:
I thought it was very straight forward; the spindle thing did not stop spinning. Therefore, Leo was stuck in his dreamland and everything, the entire film was a dream, which means his wife was right to kill herself, which means she is actually alive in real life, waiting for Leo to kill himself and wake up to join her and her kids. Though she's probably really old in real life and has a crusty vagina, so he's better off in dreamland where he can meet some young hotty and bang her instead. Lolz.
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
Oh, and as far as the ending being ambiguous,Spoiler:
I thought it was very straight forward; the spindle thing did not stop spinning. Therefore, Leo was stuck in his dreamland and everything, the entire film was a dream, which means his wife was right to kill herself, which means she is actually alive in real life, waiting for Leo to kill himself and wake up to join her and her kids. Though she's probably really old in real life and has a crusty vagina, so he's better off in dreamland where he can meet some young hotty and bang her instead. Lolz.
That is surely the most stupid interpretation. For one earlier in the film we see the spinning top falls repeatedly, I believe.
Also how could his wife possibly be older than him if he's stuck in the dream?
And how do you explain the top wavering in the final scene as opposed to going on forever without any other movement.
Though I don't totally agree with you, for one I don't think that the totem is a particularly good measure, as they explained themselves earlier in the film. I would say that if the spinning top moves continuously you have a fair reason to assume that you are in a dream, however if the spinning top falls, you have little information, you could be stuck in a dream built by an architect knowing of your totem, for example.
So apparently the idea that
Spoiler:Maybe later I will re-look up that interview to post it.
the kids were the same age and wearing the same cloths is wrong. IMDB shows that the kids were played by different actors (about 2 years older) in the end than in the earlier clips. Also, I read an interview with the costume designer and he was saying if you look closely, the clothing of the kids is similar, but not the same outfits.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That is surely the most stupid interpretation. For one earlier in the film we see the spinning top falls repeatedly, I believe.Also how could his wife possibly be older than him if he's stuck in the dream?
And how do you explain the top wavering in the final scene as opposed to going on forever without any other movement.
Though I don't totally agree with you, for one I don't think that the totem is a particularly good measure, as they explained themselves earlier in the film. I would say that if the spinning top moves continuously you have a fair reason to assume that you are in a dream, however if the spinning top falls, you have little information, you could be stuck in a dream built by an architect knowing of your totem, for example.
I'll agree I was mistaken about how his wife would be older. I got mixed up with the whole real life being slower, not faster, than dream life. That being said, go **** yourself for calling my interpretation the most stupid. Choke yourself, son. The top stumbled, but then kept going. It didn't fall. It's a very valid theory that his wife is truly alive and he's still in his dream, lost, as explained in the film, unable to tell what is real and what is a dream. Maybe his wife was entering his dreams to kill him so he'd wake up and it wasn't his subconcious afterall, at least in some cases. Maybe there were multiple architects working on his dream, possibly his wife versus the guys who needed him for the inception. Or, maybe he was the architect of his own dream and he didn't even know it, creating characters and situations with his subconcious caused by guilt, thinking it was a reality. You say you don't think the totem is a particularly good measure, yet Christopher Nolan felt it had some sort of significance being that the last seconds of the film were soley focused on it. You hack.
Anyway, the top didn't fall. It was a dream.
Originally posted by Bardock42
For one earlier in the film we see the spinning top falls repeatedly, I believe.
Correct.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Also how could his wife possibly be older than him if he's stuck in the dream?
Moot since TH admitted he got time "dilation" backwards.
Originally posted by Bardock42
And how do you explain the top wavering in the final scene as opposed to going on forever without any other movement.
Also a good point. There was a scene or two that showed the top going on forever without wavering.
To me, it's quite obvious the top fell over, no problem.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Though I don't totally agree with you, for one I don't think that the totem is a particularly good measure, as they explained themselves earlier in the film. I would say that if the spinning top moves continuously you have a fair reason to assume that you are in a dream, however if the spinning top falls, you have little information, you could be stuck in a dream built by an architect knowing of your totem, for example.
We've been over this.
The totem is a good measure because that's what they say. If someone knew what the totem's "secret" was, then, yes, they could replicate and pwn that person.
However, your speculation is baseless as it concerns Cobbs. What motivations does anyone have, from the film, have for trapping him in a dream?
Originally posted by jaden101
Has everyone forgotten that the spinning top wasn't even his totem anyway. It was his wife's. So whether it keeps on spinning til the cut to credits or not is completely irrelevant.
Only Cobbs knew about the spinning totem AFTER Mal and Cobbs came out of their limbo dream state. Mal told Cobbs about it. When Mal killed herself, only he knew about it so it became his totem, out of respect and adoration of Mal.
In other words, it still works as a totem.
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
I'll agree I was mistaken about how his wife would be older. I got mixed up with the whole real life being slower, not faster, than dream life.
No worries.
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
That being said, go **** yourself for calling my interpretation the most stupid. Choke yourself, son.
lol. I'm sorry, my phrasing was offensive. I meant to say that it is the interpretation that makes least sense to me logically (among serious theories, of course total loony ones are way more stupid).
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
The top stumbled, but then kept going. It didn't fall. It's a very valid theory that his wife is truly alive and he's still in his dream, lost, as explained in the film, unable to tell what is real and what is a dream. Maybe his wife was entering his dreams to kill him so he'd wake up and it wasn't his subconcious afterall, at least in some cases. Maybe there were multiple architects working on his dream, possibly his wife versus the guys who needed him for the inception. Or, maybe he was the architect of his own dream and he didn't even know it, creating characters and situations with his subconcious caused by guilt, thinking it was a reality.
That's a different theory though. I do agree that there is a good possibility that he is in a dream. It's just not a definite, and it's definitely not proven by the final scene. That together with your believe that the spinning top not falling proves that the whole film was in a dream, even though it did fall in earlier scenes makes your particular theory contradictory in itself. I do agree though that the whole film could have been a dream as well as the last scene could have been a dream, though for different, more coherent reasons (sorry, I suppose that phrasing was offensive again, you are a good guy and my opinion of your posted theory does in no way weaken my strong respect and regard for you 😐)
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
You say you don't think the totem is a particularly good measure, yet Christopher Nolan felt it had some sort of significance being that the last seconds of the film were soley focused on it. You hack.
Christopher Nolan felt it had enough significance to actually state in the film that the totem is only useful if the person using it is the only one who knows of its specific properties. It seems like half the crew knows what Cobbs is supposed to do, whether that's enough to fake or if they need more information is left unanswered. However dadudemon makes a good point about that which I will answer below.
Originally posted by Tired-Hiker
Anyway, the top didn't fall. It was a dream.
It didn't fall until the end of the movie, we don't know whether it did after. All we can do is theorize, like you and dadudemon and I did. Almost....almost like the ending is ambiguous.
Originally posted by dadudemon
However, your speculation is baseless as it concerns Cobbs. What motivations does anyone have, from the film, have for trapping him in a dream?
He himself.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Only Cobbs knew about the spinning totem AFTER Mal and Cobbs came out of their limbo dream state. Mal told Cobbs about it. When Mal killed herself, only he knew about it so it became his totem, out of respect and adoration of Mal.In other words, it still works as a totem.
He explains his wife's totem to Ariadne in order to tell her to get her own.
Originally posted by jaden101
He explains his wife's totem to Ariadne in order to tell her to get her own.
I was referring to before the events of the film.
You said, "Has everyone forgotten that the spinning top wasn't even his totem anyway. It was his wife's. So whether it keeps on spinning til the cut to credits or not is completely irrelevant. "
So I automatically assumed you were confused as to the origins.
Only Cobbs knows about it until he reveals it to Adriadne. Meaning, it is a completely valid totem until he tells her about it. However, what motivation does Adriadne have to mess with Cobbs mind to trick him like that? That seems very far out of character for Adriadne since it's still valid. Also, Cobbs had to reveal his deepest secrets to her because she hitched a ride in his dream when she shouldn't have.