Lich King vs Kain

Originally posted by Slaanesh
how do u know that his magic is not on Medivh or Krasus level??

Because he has shown nothing of the sort. I don't care if Burning Thought or anyone else claim for Kain that absence of proof is not proof of absence. In my book it is.

Medivh and Krasus both has showings that declare them powerful. Krasus created eight solid copies of himself and he countered the strongest spell Deathwing had. He could use spells from the other side of the planet. He was defined as the most powerful of The Six.
Medivh shortened Khadgars life by ageing him. He denied Khadgar magic. He literally melted a band of Orcs, including Warlocks in the band. He reinforced the defense of Dalaran. Aegwynn lifted Sargeras avatar and created an island where she burried it, which prove telekinesis easily a hundred times greater than Kain who lifted a lightweight human-ish guy who weighted probably less than I do.

I remember Lothar saying in a conversation why he feared the Magus (Medivh) that if a warrior slip with his sword, someone might die. If a magician slip with his spell, entire landscapes can be destroyed, destroying themselves in the process. Medivh is the greatest magician of all.

Or something of the sort. My point is that being powerful on Nosgoth is nowhere near the same league as being powerful on Azeroth.

i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Being a God is nothing more than being something with a title. Lich King is a God now. And Gods die on Azeroth occasionally. There was a slaughter of Gods during War of the Ancients. Yogg-Saron and C'Thun both died at recent time, and another lies dead in Darkshore.

Godly as Elder God may have been, it was still just a title. There was nothing impressive at all with the Elder God battle with Kain. Only what Kain has done makes him deserving of the definition powerful, and he has done nothing that define him as powerful in Azeroth.

He would not be a loser on Azeroth, but he has not done anything that has earnt him the right to meld with the big guys.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
i don't know about that..Kain beat an elder god..to me..that makes him very powerful..but if u think very powerful in Nosgoth is nothing but a loser in Azeroth..i won't argue with that..

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts.

that doesn't mean he's weak..it's a game..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun got kill by 25 loser..not even the titan were able to kill this two..and u wanna tell me some 25 loser can..

That's not the point. There's nothing impressive about that battle, so that battle can't be used as a reason to why Kain should be considered high and mighty.

why??he did beat a god..it doesn't matter how the game shows it..it's still a god..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun are powerful god..but in games they sukz..but we know they are very powerful..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
that doesn't mean he's weak..it's a game..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun got kill by 25 loser..not even the titan were able to kill this two..and u wanna tell me some 25 loser can..

Remember, the Titans fought the Old Gods(C'thun and Yogg-Saron are the only two named ones so far, there were more) and their Lieutenants when they were at full power. The Old Gods who were defeated and imprisoned(C'thun and Yogg-Saron) were stripped of 99.9% of their powers.

The beings that 40 and 25 'losers' fight are but only mere shadows of what they once were.

where did u get that 99.9% from??is that true??i know they were depowerd..but..99.9%..

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't define durability as an ability. Him having his heart ripped out and survived it does not put him anywhere above any Azeroth undead. When he survive having his head removed we can start talking Kain > Azeroth Undead.

Before you start entering these debates and directly stating who would win without actually debating, you should at least know some basics on a character, for example how his heart being ripped out is perhaps the most important thing you could do to Kain to destroy him, his head being ripped off<his heart ripped out in Kains case.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Kain fought a few tentacles and an eye that shoots weaksauce energy blasts.

yes in-game, in-game most of the characters in Warcraft seem pathetic as most people who enjoy Warcraft lore complain about, you cant base the power of a being just because in the gameplay battle Kain fights an eye and a couple of tentacles.

The Elder God himself could canonically rip apart most of Azeroth, hes like a super Old God.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
where did u get that 99.9% from??is that true??i know they we depowerd..but..99.9%..

Well, saying 99.9% is just sort of a way to get the message across. What I'm saying that they lost the vast majority of their former powers. The Old Gods you see/fight now are absolutely nothing they once were.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
why??he did beat a god..it doesn't matter how the game shows it..it's still a god..Yogg-Saron and C'Thun are powerful god..but in games they sukz..but we know they are very powerful..

I see. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, am I right?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Before you start entering these debates and directly stating who would win without actually debating, you should at least know some basics on a character, for example how his heart being ripped out is perhaps the most important thing you could do to Kain to destroy him, his head being ripped off<his heart ripped out in Kains case.

yes in-game, in-game most of the characters in Warcraft seem pathetic as most people who enjoy Warcraft lore complain about, you cant base the power of a being just because in the gameplay battle Kain fights an eye and a couple of tentacles.

The Elder God himself could canonically rip apart most of Azeroth, hes like a super Old God.

Your right.

Actually, a pre-Ordering Old God could rip Azeroth apart too. And if Elder God was at least half as powerful as an Old God(let alone a 'super' Old God) he would have vaporized Kain before he could say 'Blah!'.

even when depowered they are suppose to be very powerful..they were still able to invade the Emerald Dream and influence creature of Azeroth..getting kill by a bunch of mortal is stupid..

lets forget that..what i am trying to say is..we can't just use what was shown in game to decide that a certain char sukz..Archimonde can destroy city with a simple spell..did he use that kinda powerful spell in game..

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Actually, a pre-Ordering Old God could rip Azeroth apart too. And if Elder God was at least half as powerful as an Old God(let alone a 'super' Old God) he would have vaporized Kain before he could say 'Blah!'.

What makes you believe this? where is it stated the ycan vaporize beigns instantly or rip apart realms? and the Elder God is also the embodiment of the cycle of life on the planet so he is far more than any Old God, certainly by real feats and not assumption.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
even when depowered they are suppose to be very powerful..they were still able to invade the Emerald Dream and influence creature of Azeroth..getting kill by a bunch of mortal is stupid..

lets forget that..what i am trying to say is..we can't just use what was shown in game to decide that a certain char sukz..Archimonde can destroy city with a simple spell..did he use that kinda powerful spell in game..

Yes he did. That was the difficulty with the fight against Archimonde. He could kill the entire raid with a single spell.

But to give my opinion in the matter: World of Warcraft is a river of tears. Some of the things you do in-game are virtually impossible. Lore anomalies.

u can still avoid it..what's the point of having a powerful spell if it didn't hit the enemy..that's why i said we can't use the in-game fight..it sukz..it didn't show the true power of the char..a mortal would never stood a chance against Archimonde..

Originally posted by Slaanesh
u can still avoid it..what's the point of having a powerful spell if it didn't hit the enemy..that's why i said we can't use the in-game fight..it sukz..it didn't show the true power of the char..a mortal would never stood a chance against Archimonde..

The difference between comparing Archimonde and Elder God is that Archimonde has entire books and games filled with feats and quotes. Elder God not so much.

All we have on Elder God is what we see in the game. If we don't see much of him, we can't assume he is much more than he is. And the little we saw in the fight between Kain and him does not make it the slightest impressive. It is irrelevant if he can destroy the planet (Although he has never done it, so we don't know with absolute certainty), because he did not use any moves of such calibur against Kain. Therefore, despite the capabilities of the Elder God, it's not an impressive fight and Kain was not impressive for beating him, despite his power.

Nothing you say about Elder God. No matter what feats you bring up. Nothing makes that fight any more impressive than it already isnt.