Waterboarding

Originally posted by KidRock
My point is we need to figure out what defines torture. If it is simply ANYTHING that causes mental or physical anguish then we better revamp our entire corrections system.

Exactly. Because I can make my PETA-like coworker cry and be traumatized for a couple of days by showing her a video of an animal being beaten to death. Fer realz.

Actually it is well defined in the last part of the Geneva Convention on Torture-

"when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions."

Prison culture doesn't apply because it's not officially endorsed or given sanction by any public official other than de facto negligence which exists and sistemic corruption and should be delt with.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Actually it is well defined in the last part of the Geneva Convention on Torture-

"when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions."

Prison culture doesn't apply because it's not officially endorsed or given sanction by any public official other than de facto negligence which exists and sistemic corruption and should be delt with.

Correct me if I am wrong and point me to an article to confirm it but doesnt the Geneva Convention protect prisoners of war and enemy combatants? Not Unlawful combatant's like we have housed at GITMO?

That's who it applies to but the definition is still very useful.

Advice on making swords is meant for swords but you can apply it to knives pretty well too.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That's who it applies to but the definition is still very useful.

Advice on making swords is meant for swords but you can apply it to knives pretty well too.

It's useful, yes.

Is water boarding morally and ethically wrong? I would say yeah it is. If we choose to not use it against POW's in a conventional war, we probably shouldn't use it against others.

Illegal? I haven't seen anything that would say it is.

I am in no position to say if it's useful or not, the CIA and Government know better then I do on this. I doubt they would waste time and resources fighting this battle to convince people it works if it really didn't.

You realize that logic boils down to "they should be allowed to do it because they do it", right?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You realize that logic boils down to "they should be allowed to do it because they do it", right?

No, it comes down to they should be allowed to do it because there were no laws banning it until just recently.

Originally posted by KidRock
The simple thought of knowing you will be locked up for life in a small 6x8 cell can cause a great deal of anguish..yet we still do it, dont we?

Fact is inmates are being tortured everyday in our prisons. Illegal or not, we shouldn't allow these inmates to be tortured, and if we cannot stop it they should be released..unless you're all for keeping these people locked up and continuing to let them be tortured?

No idea what you said, disest is not a word. Neither is sumthing for that matter. Go read a dictionary for a few days.

the intensity of depair at such a thing doesnt count as physical torture. mental coercion can be tortoROUS but it isnt unjutifyably inhumane and involves no physical component. if you cant see the difference, then ur a fool.

so you concede then that rape and beating of inmates is torture and is illegal, thus destroying your initial precidence and turning your own argument into nonsense. your right, we SHUDNT allow them to be tortured like that, but letting them go free is not the answer. you can end the physical torture and coercion in jails without having to let people go free. your arguments are getting more and more pathetic.

still doesnt matter, your intentions are crystal clear and your arguments prove this. rationalising torture because you follow an idiotic ideaology is truly disgusting. maybe u wud like to volunteer yourself and your family to be waterboarded th provbe once and for all that it isnt torure.

idiotic grammer nazi, words serve to convey CONCEPTS not the other way around. any professor of linguistics or generative grammer or semantics will tell you the same. your inability to understand the concept conveyed is YOUR lack of intelligence and not MY problem.

Originally posted by KidRock
No, it comes down to they should be allowed to do it because there were no laws banning it until just recently.

Which is a) just as stupid b) not actually what you said.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
So are you in support of blatant, legal, state sanctioned torture in order to coerce "intelligence", coerce confessions, and execute people? Maybe redefine cruel and unusual so that it's meaningless? I mean less than 100 years ago they still used a Catherine Wheel in a couple of cases in Indiana.

that is EXACTLY what he is in support with and dont let any of his wordplay and running around the issue tell you otherwise. he is simply trying to approach it from another point of view so it wont seem so blatantly inhuman and politically incorrect.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which is a) just as stupid b) not actually what you said.

I was talking about when waterboarding was going on, before Obama banned it. There was nothing saying it couldn't be done and from the evidence I saw, it worked. Who should I believe when talking about water boarding, the CIA memos or Keith Olbermann?

How is it stupid?

I go waterbording while being dragged by a motorboat.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I go waterbording while being dragged by a motorboat.

i.e. you have water poured down your nose throught a blindfold as you simultaneously go BRRRRRRRRR between a woman's breasts as you are being dragged by your captors........................ interesting

Originally posted by KidRock
I was talking about when waterboarding was going on, before Obama banned it. There was nothing saying it couldn't be done and from the evidence I saw, it worked. Who should I believe when talking about water boarding, the CIA memos or Keith Olbermann?

How is it stupid?

You mean other than the Army code of conduct, the Geneva convention on torture, and the court precedent wherein we hanged and beheaded Japanese war criminals for water boarding US troops? I didn't know 1946 was post-Obama.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
You mean other than the Army code of conduct, the Geneva convention on torture, and the court precedent wherein we hanged and beheaded Japanese war criminals for water boarding US troops? I didn't know 1946 was post-Obama.

So then where was congress? Where was Pelosi when she heard about all this going on? Or are you a part of the club that thinks "oh, she didn't know anything"

some of them didn't know, some where complicit, and some where pussies who are guilty by inaction. Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than dumping Pelosi and Feinstein, the wicked witch of San Fancisco out of congress and putting in someone better and less corrupt

Originally posted by Darth Jello
some of them didn't know, some where complicit, and some where pussies who are guilty by inaction. Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than dumping Pelosi and Feinstein, the wicked witch of San Fancisco out of congress and putting in someone better and less corrupt

Who do you have in mind as replacements?

Matt Gonzalez and Cruz Bustamante, push Bernie Sanders to Majority Leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNA5ZxkCxY&feature=related

leonheartmm

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Lmao