Jacen (prime) Vs. Luke

Jacen at the moment before his death is whisked away by the force, his physical body is restored to its physical prime. He also retains all knowledge, wisdom he has gained up to that point.

He is told by the force that he will be battling Luke Skywalker in one on one combat to the death. Luke Skywalker is also told by the force he will be battling Jacen in combat to the death, so both are warned.

Jace and Luke are then transported to a giant unbreakable stadium, in which each is positioned on an opposite end facing one another. Who wins in this duel where both are at their peak, and prepared to fight one another?

Luke wins...

Luke.

But in a lightsaber fight, as seen when Luke was enraged, initiated a surprise attack, and had assistance (Ben), it will be extremely close.

Originally posted by Gideon
Luke.

But in a lightsaber fight, as seen when Luke was enraged, initiated a surprise attack, and had assistance (Ben), it will be extremely close.

Wasn't Ben more of a hinderance than a help to Luke? I thought Luke would have killed Jacen if not for Ben being there.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Wasn't Ben more of a hinderance than a help to Luke? I thought Luke would have killed Jacen if not for Ben being there.

You are correct had Ben not said anything the entire duel, the battle would have ended on page 259.

That's only if you're interested in a one sided account; if you prefer the full story, you'll note that in addition to hindering Luke -- surprising him and causing him to fall from a position of advantage -- Ben also stabbed Jacen in the back during the fight.

So, what we have is an enraged Luke Skywalker (note Star Wars' policy on battle rage and the advantages therein) with the advantages of surprise and his son managed to dominate his nephew with inferior experience and skill.

Luke will win, but it in terms of an actual lightsaber duel? It would be extremely close.

That's pretty much incontrovertible.

Luke ftw

Originally posted by Gideon
That's only if you're interested in a one sided account; if you prefer the full story, you'll note that in addition to hindering Luke -- surprising him and causing him to fall from a position of advantage -- Ben also stabbed Jacen in the back during the fight.

So, what we have is an enraged Luke Skywalker (note Star Wars' policy on battle rage and the advantages therein) with the advantages of surprise and his son managed to dominate his nephew with inferior experience and skill.

Luke will win, but it in terms of an actual lightsaber duel? It would be extremely close.

That's pretty much incontrovertible.

Point taken but didn't Ben's stab end the duel, so it didn't generate any advantages for Luke during the duel.

BTW Why do i get the felling i am being made out to be the "bad guy" for answering Vorpal's questions.

Originally posted by Fan Skywalker
Point taken but didn't Ben's stab end the duel, so it didn't generate any advantages for Luke during the duel.

I would say that ending the duel is an advantage in of itself.

BTW Why do i get the felling i am being made out to be the "bad guy" for answering Vorpal's questions.

Not at all.

Luke has demonstrated a command of the Force that, under certain circumstances, far exceeds his nephew's. Overall, he is naturally more experienced, more skilled, and more dangerous; he'd win the fight. But the fact of the matter is that he was critically wounded by Caedus even when he had assistance, the element of surprise, and the advantages afforded by raw anger.

Originally posted by Gideon
I would say that ending the duel is an advantage in of itself.

Ohh Snap! Now that i think about it you're right it is an advantage. Nevertheless considering it saved Jacen's rear you could say it served him better then Luke.

Originally posted by Fan Skywalker
Ohh Snap! Now that i think about it you're right it is an advantage. Nevertheless considering it saved Jacen's rear you could say it served him better then Luke.

It also wounded his enemy completely.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Jacen at the moment before his death is whisked away by the force, his physical body is restored to its physical prime. He also retains all knowledge, wisdom he has gained up to that point.

He is told by the force that he will be battling Luke Skywalker in one on one combat to the death. Luke Skywalker is also told by the force he will be battling Jacen in combat to the death, so both are warned.

Jace and Luke are then transported to a giant unbreakable stadium, in which each is positioned on an opposite end facing one another. Who wins in this duel where both are at their peak, and prepared to fight one another?

Originally posted by Gideon
It also wounded his enemy completely.

Better immobilized then dead, my point is that ending the duel was to Jacen's benefit more so then Luke's. Also Ive revisited Elite Hunter's blow by blow account of the duel and ive learned some interesting facts.

1. Roughly 30% of Jacen's blows to Luke would have been mitigated because their importance came from Luke being injured prior to the duel in Inferno

2.Roughly another 30% of Jacen's blows came from tendrils that are presumably not present in this setting

3. The other 40% (roughly) of Jacen's blows were completely fair.

I don't see how this will be extremely close unless by extremely close you mean Luke wins every time but usually comes out with some injury.

Fan Skywalker
I don't see how this will be extremely close unless by extremely close you mean Luke wins every time but usually comes out with some injury.

Gideon
Overall, he is naturally more experienced, more skilled, and more dangerous; he'd win the fight.

Originally posted by Eminence
Can you link me to this?

[QUOTE=11889672]Originally posted by Eminence
[B]Here's a list of every wound suffered by Skywalker in the duel:

1) Roundhouse-kick to the chest, which hits his damaged lungs (from Lumiya) hard.

2) Jacen lashes him into the tendrils the first time. He cuts out almost immediately.

3) Jacen punches him in the ribs, in the same spot as before. Again, the "barely healed" wound from his duel with Lumiya increases the magnitude of the injury.

4) Jacen kicks Luke in the leg, causing "something" to "pop."

5) Jacen drops a steel fixture on Luke's head, knocking him to the ground and breaking his nose.

6) Luke takes another kick to the knee.

7) Jacen tries to strange Luke with another tendril.

So that's two strikes that are only severe because of Luke's prior injuries, and two resulting from Jacen's use of traps that he'd already set up. That leaves three "fair" hits, including the use of the environment in the form of the steel fixture, which is fine.

Now, Jacen:

1) Luke grazes Jacen's kidney with his saber, but Jacen feeds on the pain to make him stronger.

2) Luke hits Jacen with an elbow-smash to the temple that drops him to his knees.

3) Luke knees Jacen in the chin, and hears teeth crack.

4) Luke kicks Jacen in the stomach, lifting him a meter off the deck.

5) Jacen blocks a strike from Luke that packs so much force it drives Jacen's own lightsaber into his shoulder.

6) Luke slashes Jacen across the head, leaving a "palm-sized" hole that reveals bone.

7) Luke hits Jacen in the eye.

8) Luke feints an attack, then Force-pushes Jacen into a tendril-draped rack hard enough that he thinks he broke it.

9) Luke is about to kill him, Ben stops him, Jacen drops the fixture on Luke's head and tries to run away.

10) Luke catches up to Jacen, elbows him in the face, and a bone shatters.

11) Luke elbows Luke in the ribs ("like hitting a permacrete wall"😉 then uses the momentum and the Force to throw himself and Jacen into a wall, with Jacen's skull hitting first.

12) Luke elbows Jacen in the face again.

13) Luke hits Jacen in the same spot with a palm-heel to get distance, and then Ben stabs Jacen.

End fight at that point. Jacen gets seven hits on Luke - two that only mattered because of Luke's still barely-healed wounds, two that he managed because of his tendril things. It was fighting smart, so obviously I won't hold it against him. But Luke had thirteen solid saber/strike hits on Jacen in their duel. As demonstrated, he could've simply ruined him with the Force, but his "battle rage," as Ben called it - plus PIS - clouded his mind. It took both of Ben's interventions, the first where he asks to kill Jacen himself, and the second where he stabs the man, for Luke to calm down and think.

Luke is firmly superior to Jacen in saber combat - he cannot lose to him.

I think he just means a duel would be challenging. [/B][/QUOTE]

My mistake, this was your blow by blow account. This is on page 5 of project holocron, all i did was present it in a different way.

If he just means it's going to be a challenge then i am sorry gideon, i thought by extremely close you meant Luke would win 5 out of ten.

Looking from this perspective, the fight seems more like a street fight then a lightsaber duel lol.

Anyway, with these conditions Luke wins. Jacen had already admitted Luke's superiority with the lightsaber, and the force power difference is also considerable. Luke had also beat him already. Luke takes it.

Ah. I liked that post.

I would definitely revise aspects of my summary, though.

Eminence
So that's two strikes that are only severe because of Luke's prior injuries, and two resulting from Jacen's use of traps that he'd already set up. That leaves three "fair" hits, including the use of the environment in the form of the steel fixture, which is fine.

Eminence
Jacen gets seven hits on Luke - two that only mattered because of Luke's still barely-healed wounds, two that he managed because of his tendril things. It was fighting smart, so obviously I won't hold it against him.

Eminence
Luke is firmly superior to Jacen in saber combat - he cannot lose to him.

in force luke takes it in sabers lukes takes it though it would be a challenge. and in all out i'd say luke owns easily

Originally posted by Fan Skywalker
Better immobilized then dead, my point is that ending the duel was to Jacen's benefit more so then Luke's. Also Ive revisited Elite Hunter's blow by blow account of the duel and ive learned some interesting facts.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I made a "blow by blow' account of the duel?

Nah it was Eminence who did it's just sometimes i get you forum oldies confused.