Originally posted by MindsetThen why did Dumbledore make Harry learn it to prevent Voldemort from ENTERING his mind, not reading it?
No, it shields it from certain outside influences, not all.It even tells use which things it protects it from.
The wizards get their minds shut down.
You seriously can not even compare their "telepathy" to Xaviers, not even close in scope and power.
Originally posted by Rogue JediI've noticed you have a problem with reading posts then retorting with an appropriate response.
Then why did Dumbledore make Harry learn it to prevent Voldemort from ENTERING his mind, not reading it?
What does that have to do with anything I said?
That is one of the things listed in your description, which I never disagreed with, what that has to do with shutting someone's mind off, I don't know.
Btw, to read someone's mind, you do enter it.
Originally posted by Mindset
I've noticed you have a problem with reading posts then retorting with an appropriate response.What does that have to do with anything I said?
That is one of the things listed in your description, which I never disagreed with, what that has to do with shutting someone's mind off, I don't know.
Btw, to read someone's mind, you do enter it.
Xavier has to enter one's mind in order to shut it down. Occlumency prevents someone from entering a wizards mind. Simple. It's all in OOTP, check it out. Soooooooooooooo.......When a wizard employs Occlumency, no one, not even the great Charles Xavier, can enter their mind. Not for telepathy, not for shutting it down. Basically, when a wizard employs Occlumency, Xavier's mind powers are nullified.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The counter-skill to Legilimency is Occlumency (and its user, known as an Occlumens), by which one can compartmentalise one's emotions, or prevent a Legilimens from discovering thoughts or memories which contradict one's spoken words or actions.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Xavier has to enter one's mind in order to shut it down. Occlumency prevents someone from entering a wizards mind. Simple. It's all in OOTP, check it out. Soooooooooooooo.......When a wizard employs Occlumency, no one, not even the great Charles Xavier, can enter their mind. Not for telepathy, not for shutting it down. Basically, when a wizard employs Occlumency, Xavier's mind powers are nullified.
Go right ahead and keep making up powers for people, you seem good at it.
Storm summons large thunder storms and cyclones from way up in the skies and kills everyone.
Dark Phoenix uses instant disintegration and kills everyone.
Xavier uses mind rape and kills everyone.
People like Nightcrawler, Deadpool, Callisto and Quicksilver could go around kicking ass and they're too quick to be targeted for a spell.
If only Juggernaut was powered by the gem of Cyttorack, he would solo this too.
Originally posted by KingD19Voldemort was a powerful telepath, so Dumbledore chose to teach Harry Occlumency to keep Voldemort from entering his mind.
Occlumency has clear limits, it keeps them from reading your thoughts and memories, there's nothing that says it stops a powerful telepath from shutting down the basic functions of your brain.
Remember the final scene, when Voldy enters and takes over Harry's mind? Well, Harry was a novice at Occlumency until that point. He then expelled Voldy from his mind.
Watch scene 17 , entitled "Occlumency." When Snape takes Harry away from Dumbledore's office for Occlumency lessons, here is what is said, word for word.
Snape "It appears there's a connection between the Dark Lord's mind and your own. Whether he is, as yet, aware of this connection is, for the moment, unclear. Pray he remains ignorant."
Harry "You mean, if he knows about it, then he'll be able t read my mind?"
Snape "read it, control it, unhinge it. In the past, it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madness. Only after extracting the last exquisite ounce of agony, only when he had them literally begging for death, would he finally kill them.....Used properly, the power of Occlumency will help shield you from access or influence. In these lessons, I will attempt to penetrate your mind. You will attempt to resist."
Used properly, the power of Occlumency will help shield you from access or influence.
There it is, Occlumency shields a wizards mind from outside influence.
Originally posted by KingD19Dude, Xavier must enter their mind to shut it down, therefore he is an outside influence, quite literally. If he cannot enter their mind, how can he shut it down?
You should really stop interpreting things how you want, and think about it. He meant having his mind influenced, not an outside influence. And reading someones mind is different from mentally shutting down brain functions.
Having ones mind shut down is having ones mind influenced, to the extreme.
Originally posted by Placidity
Storm summons large thunder storms and cyclones from way up in the skies and kills everyone.Dark Phoenix uses instant disintegration and kills everyone.
Xavier uses mind rape and kills everyone.
People like Nightcrawler, Deadpool, Callisto and Quicksilver could go around kicking ass and they're too quick to be targeted for a spell.
If only Juggernaut was powered by the gem of Cyttorack, he would solo this too.
Yep. Pretty much so.
Originally posted by ImpedimentHardly that simple. Avada Kedavra would do in DP.
Yep. Pretty much so.
Xavier's mind control will only work on the adolescents, it wont work on guys like Dumbledore, Snape, Voldemort and Potter, and surely numerous others.
Juggernaut? Again, Avada Kedavra.
As for the others, well, that's a toughie. I think the sheer number of wizards and death eaters will be enough to compensate. Not to mention the fact that wizards can apparate, it's just like teleporting.
There are so many spells a wizard can use, man. Petrificus totalus, Stupefy, Impedimenta, Avada Kedavra, Wingardium Leviosa, Bombarda Maxima, Incarcerous, Expelliarmus, Levicorpus, Crusiatus, etc;
Not to mention that wizards can fly around well out of the reach of most of the mutants, casting spells left and right.
Oh yeah, the death eaters and the members of the Order of the Phoenix, they can like fly on their own, and pretty much have the power to disappear and reappear in a different location whenever they choose. Thats pretty much the same as teleporting.
Everything I have posted here is in The Order of the Phoenix, scene for scene, word for word.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Xavier's mind control will only work on the adolescents, it wont work on guys like Dumbledore, Snape, Voldemort and Potter, and surely numerous others.
Assuming thats true...
Xavier kills everyone except those few at the start. Then they are severely outnumbered. They have no chance of surviving against the overwhelming numbers of mutants.
Edit: Actually, its even better. Xavier doesn't kill them, he turns everyone (except the few) against the wizards.
Originally posted by Impediment
Since I'm not the biggest Harry Potter fan in the world, you have to explain this to me.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It is a basic Wizard power, not really a spell.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occlumency#Legilimency_and_Occlumency
[edit] Legilimency and Occlumency
Legilimency is the magical skill of extracting feelings and memories from another person's mind — a form of magical "telepathy" (although Snape, an able practitioner of the art, dismisses the colloquial term as a drastic oversimplification). It also allows one to convey visions or memories to another person, whether real or imaginary. A witch or wizard possessing this skill is called a Legilimens, and can, for example, detect lies and deceit in another person, witness memories in another person's past, or "plant" false visions in another's mind.The counter-skill to Legilimency is Occlumency (and its user, known as an Occlumens), by which one can compartmentalise one's emotions, or prevent a Legilimens from discovering thoughts or memories which contradict one's spoken words or actions.
Voldemort, Snape, and Dumbledore are all known to be quite skilled in Legilimency and Occlumency. Throughout the books, Snape is repeatedly said to be highly skilled in Occlumency. Voldemort is said to be the master of Legilimency by Snape, as he, in almost all cases, immediately knows during conversations if someone lies to him.
The skills are first mentioned in Order of the Phoenix, (though Harry gets the impression before that Snape can read minds) wherein Snape is instructed by Dumbledore to give Harry lessons in Occlumency. Whether as a result of negligence in Snape's instruction, or poor aptitude on Harry's part, Harry never made any progress in the skill, and as a result he was lured by Voldemort through a carefully calculated vision he falsely believed to be real. Only once has Harry managed to overcome Snape with the use of Occlumency, in Order of the Phoenix.[14] During the lesson, Harry notices that the Dementors become fainter and Snape becomes clearer.
Bellatrix Lestrange, Draco Malfoy, Narcissa Malfoy and Barty Crouch Jr may also have some skill in Occlumency, since Bellatrix was said to have taught Draco to shield his thoughts from Snape[HP6] and Narcissa's treachery is not detected when Voldemort asks her to check Harry's pulse after he has seemingly killed him.[HP7]
Legilimency and Occlumency are not part of the normal curriculum at Hogwarts, and most students would graduate without learning them. They seem to be considered a more advanced form of magic.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Voldemort was a powerful telepath, so Dumbledore chose to teach Harry Occlumency to keep Voldemort from entering his mind.Remember the final scene, when Voldy enters and takes over Harry's mind? Well, Harry was a novice at Occlumency until that point. He then expelled Voldy from his mind.
Watch scene 17 , entitled "Occlumency." When Snape takes Harry away from Dumbledore's office for Occlumency lessons, here is what is said, word for word.
Snape "It appears there's a connection between the Dark Lord's mind and your own. Whether he is, as yet, aware of this connection is, for the moment, unclear. Pray he remains ignorant."
Harry "You mean, if he knows about it, then he'll be able t read my mind?"
Snape "read it, control it, unhinge it. In the past, it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madness. Only after extracting the last exquisite ounce of agony, only when he had them literally begging for death, would he finally kill them.....Used properly, the power of Occlumency will help shield you from access or influence. In these lessons, I will attempt to penetrate your mind. You will attempt to resist."
Used properly, the power of Occlumency will help shield you from access or influence.
There it is, Occlumency shields a wizards mind from outside influence.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, Xavier must enter their mind to shut it down, therefore he is an outside influence, quite literally. If he cannot enter their mind, how can he shut it down?Having ones mind shut down is having ones mind influenced, to the extreme.
Originally posted by PlacidityIt is true. And the Death Eaters, OOTP members, as well as any elder wizard worth their salt, will be able to resist this. They number far more than a few.
Assuming thats true...Xavier kills everyone except those few at the start. Then they are severely outnumbered. They have no chance of surviving against the overwhelming numbers of mutants.
Most wizards can apparate, all can fly on broomsticks, the more experienced on their own. Only a few mutants can take flight, and it really isnt flight, its levitation.
And I was just watching OOTP, when Voldy invades Harry's mind. Harry expels him, and then Voldemort is standing over Harry, telling him "you will lose." Everything except for Harry and Voldemort are frozen in time, Dumbledore included. If Voldemort can employ this against the mutants, what can they do?
We need to figure out how many mutants there are, roughly. How many would you say?
Originally posted by PlacidityAnd any wizard who knows Occlumency/Lgeilimency can do the same. Voldemort, Dumbledore, Snape, they can do the same to the mutants, turn them on one another.Edit: Actually, its even better. Xavier doesn't kill them, he turns everyone (except the few) against the wizards.
Legilimency and Occlumency
Legilimency is the magical skill of extracting feelings and memories from another person's mind — a form of magical "telepathy" (although Snape, an able practitioner of the art, dismisses the colloquial term as a drastic oversimplification). It also allows one to convey visions or memories to another person, whether real or imaginary. A witch or wizard possessing this skill is called a Legilimens, and can, for example, detect lies and deceit in another person, witness memories in another person's past, or "plant" false visions in another's mind.
What's to stop DP from telekinetically hodling every single wizard in place, or telekinitically pinching nerves and blood vessels?
And Leglimency/Occlumency works different from TP. Remember Xavier froze an entire shopping mall with no effort. The wizards powers aren't instant, and they have to focus. Also, what's to sto Pyro from frying every wand in sight?
Originally posted by KingD19
What's to stop DP from telekinetically hodling every single wizard in place, or telekinitically pinching nerves and blood vessels?And Leglimency/Occlumency works different from TP. Remember Xavier froze an entire shopping mall with no effort. The wizards powers aren't instant, and they have to focus. Also, what's to sto Pyro from frying every wand in sight?
Well RJ is going to say that avacadava or whatever its called thing. The problem is by the time Voldy casts that on one person, many others would be onto him already.