Johun Othone + Valenthyne Farfalla+ Raskta Lsu v ROTS sidious.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
True.

Nebaris might be blacklisted as per REX's command, but you're not. Since Nebaris has a rather notorious history of disregarding canon statements (unless they pertain to Bane), why don't you explain how that's all true?

And seeing as Sidious doesn't have orbalisks (the only reason Bane survived that battle), I think the Jedi win this.

Off the top of my head, three separate sources outright confirm that Palpatine, as of Revenge of the Sith, is more powerful than Darth Bane. The only way your conclusion would be valid would be if they were equals; they're not, Palpatine is better.

Power doesn't equal an auto-win though, as Bane was only capable of winning (if thats what you call it) becuase he had specific things on his side besides power. Namely a helpful apprentice, arguably greater control of his force power and the much hated orbalisks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Power doesn't equal an auto-win though, as Bane was only capable of winning (if thats what you call it) becuase he had specific things on his side besides power. Namely a helpful apprentice, arguably greater control of his force power and the much hated orbalisks.

But that's not what chilled monkey said. He said the orbalisks were the only reason he won.

Once again, I have a hard time believing that Bane has more control over his abilities than Palpatine. Dooku demonstrated great efficiency and skill with telekinesis than what we've seen of Palpatine, yet that doesn't mean he is either more powerful or more refined. It means he has arguably greater control in one division of the Force.

True and true, but what aspects of the force do you think Sidious has that would make up for lack of orbalisks, apprentice and TK-refinement?
Assuming of course you think Sidious could do just as well in Banes position.

Originally posted by Nephthys
True and true, but what aspects of the force do you think Sidious has that would make up for lack of orbalisks, apprentice and TK-refinement?
Assuming of course you think Sidious could do just as well in Banes position.

A lack of TK-refinement?

Nothing indicates that he lacks refinement in telekinesis. Hell, he and Yoda were able to screw around with multiple automobile-sized Senate pods, keeping them in constant rotation and circulation in defiance with gravity, rather casually.

I meant in comparison to Bane, who's shown greater destructive use of TK than Sidious, and was still unable to beat the team with it.

Originally posted by Gideon
But that's not what chilled monkey said. He said the orbalisks were the only reason he won.
[/i].

On reflection that was a mistake. I should have said "the orbalisks and Zannah's aid were the only reasons he won."

Thanks Nephthys.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nebaris might be blacklisted as per REX's command, but you're not. Since Nebaris has a rather notorious history of disregarding canon statements (unless they pertain to Bane), why don't you explain how that's all true?

Okay.

"her ability was described by the omniscient as "unparalleled" in an era that saw more lightsaber on lightsaber combat than any other, she was renowned by her peers for being the greatest duelist of her time, she was reported to have personally killed more Sith Lords than even the number that had been decimated by the Thought Bomb, she was stated to have achieved the "rare and prestigious rank" of Jedi Weapons Master, and was described by the omniscient narrator as having fully dedicated her time and effort to her lightsaber skills."

All of this was stated in the novel.

"From what we can say of Sidious, he doesn't remotely compare. He can't be said to possess a level of ability even approaching that displayed by Raskta,"

Okay, not this bit. Sidious does indeed show a (very) elite level of skill when he takes out Mace's posse in RotS.

"and is strongly implied to have been completely out of practise with the lightsaber, having kept his primary one hidden in a statue for the thirteen years leading to RotS, and having had limited contact with any other lightsaber practitioner (as the Sith Lord, Darth Sidious)."

The bit about keeping his sabre in a statue is right, (and really, can you see him getting much time to practise his sword skills given his workload?) but the fact that he took out Mace's posse so easily even though he was out of practise is a point in Sidious's favour.

"She's displayed a far greater level of speed; in her duel with Darth Bane, she was seen from a battle meditation boosted Farfalla's Force Sensitive eyes as appearing to be everywhere and all around Bane at once: in front of him, behind him, beside him, crouching low, leaping in the air, indicating that she was moving far too quickly for his Force enhanced reaction speeds to visually keep up with."

Also stated in the novel. True, she was being amped by BM, but so was Farfalla and he couldn't follow her movements.

"Sidious has never been shown to be capable of moving at a level of speed even close, meaning, on paper, Raskta firmly holds the advantage in this area as well."

Ah, this bit here, not so much. Sidious also displays super-speed in the RotS novel, to the point where Anakin can see him as only a "thickening black haze."

So okay, not 'all' of it was true, but some of it was.

Personally I feel that, in a 'pure' swordfight (i.e. no TK/lightning etc) Raskta could at least hold her own against Sidious.

Originally posted by Gideon
Off the top of my head, three separate sources outright confirm that Palpatine, as of Revenge of the Sith, is more powerful than Darth Bane. The only way your conclusion would be valid would be if they were equals; they're not, Palpatine is better.

True, but as Nephthys pointed out, power isn't everything. I think you'd have to agree that a near-impenetrable armour covering most of your body and an apprentice to aid you are good advantages that Sidious doesn't have here.

ROTS Sidious also manhandled 3 Masters who were known as some of the best in the Order's history in like 5 seconds. THREE as opposed to Bane's ONE.

Though to be fair to Bane, (and to say it again) Worror's presence really upped the ante. As he isn't in this one.

Sidious took out three jedi MASTERS, from an era which Lucas calls the prime of the jedi order(something like that), in seconds. One of them [Kit] was able to outduel Grievous. Windu could not even do anything to stop Sidious from butchering them so easy.

Talk about speed? Sidious and Windu looked like blurs to Anakin.

Non-cannonally 😬

Originally posted by Nephthys
Non-cannonally 😬

That's a valid point.

But the rest of Sixty-six and Lucien's points are equally factual. I suppose you'd have to prove that Bane's combatants -- without battle meditation -- are enough to challenge someone whom three of the finest swordsmasters (blah blah blah) couldn't handle.

Gideon
(blah blah blah)

Originally posted by Eminence
Your posts could consist entirely of this ^, and we'd still know what you're talking about.

And it would be equally show-stopping and pertinent. I need to appoint someone to be my heir, the caretaker to all of my threads and knowledge.

You would be a choice, but you don't have enough backbone to stand up to anyone.

Maybe Nemesis? Lucien?

Gideon
And it would be equally show-stopping and pertinent. I need to appoint someone to be my heir, the caretaker to all of my threads and knowledge.

You would be [the] choice, but you [do better than me].

Gideon
Maybe Nemesis?

Ever since you made him stop Grammar Nazi'ing he's lost all personality.

Gideon
Lucien?

(ToMAYto -- ToMAHto)

Anyways, I certainly don't intend to kick everyone's ass here forever. Hmm...

Yeah, you seem to have a very active retirement.

Originally posted by Eminence
Yeah, you seem to have a very active retirement.

When people's asses yearn for kicking, indeed.

Lucien would be my choice Gideon. *rolls a 18/24* *Foresight activated* *Eminence rolls 24/24* *Lucien fanboy blocking shield broke!*

Damn you Eminence!

Excellent...