Tekken vs Street Fighter · Games 'Versus' Forum

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

Ugh.... No dude, the Shankunetsu Gou Hadoukens are the ones that cause immolation, the Zankuu Hadoukens are the aerial ones. My point is that no Hadoukens can actually be compared directly to a fist or foot impact, Hadoukens cause explosive trauma, punches don't. its really that simple.

I looked at it, and for starters, that isn't ki, its molten rock. The colour is wrong for the Kongou Kokuretsu Zan for starters, 2nd, if it where the Kongou Kokuretsu Zan, it's WAY too small; theres no energy colum, no purple waves, no aura emission, and no huge surface cracks/ripples. Thus I can conclude that it's a different technique at the very least.

Sado22 Restricted

Ugh.... No dude, the Shankunetsu Gou Hadoukens are the ones that cause immolation, the Zankuu Hadoukens are the aerial ones.

i know. but look at the vids. the hadoukens he does are flaming. sometime later he does the regular zankuuhadoukens and they are purple.

My point is that no Hadoukens can actually be compared directly to a fist or foot impact, Hadoukens cause explosive trauma, punches don't. its really that simple.

the faq says otherwise. hadoukens, in any depiction of them, do not explode or the like but simply cause the person to either reel back or fall back. the shakuunetsu, on the otherhand, are explosive and immolate, but not ryu's.

I looked at it, and for starters, that isn't ki, its molten rock.

molten rock? no dude. look at akuma's fist. its yellow ki and the cracks are glowing with the same ki. its literally the same color

The colour is wrong for the Kongou Kokuretsu Zan for starters

doesnt' mean anything. ryu's hadouken and ken's hadouken have changed colors over the years. akuma's hadoukens have also changed colors iirc. guile's sonic boom has gone from white to yellow to white again. kikoken has gone from yellow to blue. and so on...

2nd, if it where the Kongou Kokuretsu Zan, it's WAY too small

too small? what do you mean?

theres no energy colum

there's no energy column even for the one in SF3. the cracks were simply glowing with ki as is the case here. not to mention that his hands are glowing the same way, his stannce is the same and you can clearly see energy blast going upwards. like i said before, the lack of lightning and energy column can be associated to the fact that it is not an animation but a still pic.

no purple waves

there are glowing yellow cracks and he just punched the grounds. we know from the proper animations of the KKZ that the waves come a split second later and not immediately. notice also that there is a whole explosion going on in the next frame.

no aura emission

see one in the SF3 one?

and no huge surface cracks/ripples.

its cracking whatever ground is there to crack and we see only one side of the pic. notice also that rocks are already levitating with his attack and that rocks are falling down over them. and again, there's an explosion in the very next frame.

Thus I can conclude that it's a different technique at the very least.

you're entitled to an opinion but i'm not convinced that you aren't convinced 🙂

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

#1: The FAQ is fanmade, once you realise this, everything will become clear.

#2: If that is his ki, then its the one and only time ever that its been that color for him... Nothing ingame nor before or since then has him have a yellow aura... I'm sorry mate, but that is far from compelling evidence.

#3: No, not really, nothing as radical as this.

#4: Too small, as in it's WAY too small surfacewise to be the KKZ. not enough surface damage.

#5: Those explosions would have been caused by the transfer of energy minutes later, considering Ryu was in the water when they happen.

#6: Yes, you do, both during the purple cracks part, and more noticably, when you can actually do the move in 3rd strike.

#7:The collum appears right when Uluru splits, and it also appears in the ingame version, as does the purple waves. The wound in Uluru is also glowing purple.

#8: Read the rest.

#9: It's a similar technique. but not the same as KKZ.

Kirikaze Fuuma Kaze no Soldier

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It's a shame that you don't see the energy, only the impact and molten rock around his fist.

When did a rock shine when it melts? and... is that a molten rock too in Gouki's eye? (no offense) 😛

And if you compare that the the explosions caused by the Tenma Gou Zankuu, then your vision is impaired.
You can see that there is a concentration of force directed in a MUCH smaller area.

Because TGZ spreads while his punch only hit one spot.

Like I said before, Goukentou sinking (And for that matter Uluru splitting ) wasn't caused by explosions.

It's obvious that there's an explosion on that island. And then we saw Ryu already floated on the sea.

And I'm saying that the Zankuu Hadoukens are NOT similar to punches in application, no matter what they 'feel' like to living targets.

it's the effect. When you punch a man and a rock it's still the same punch with the same effect. For example : A flame will both human and house. I never heard a flame burn a human but made a house wet.

Sado22 Restricted

#1: The FAQ is fanmade, once you realise this, everything will become clear.

the source isn't. he literally quoted the source which kirikaze posted for you to see.

#2: If that is his ki, then its the one and only time ever that its been that color for him.

even has aura was that color. and i already pointed out to you that colors have changed over time etc. etc.

Nothing ingame nor before or since then has him have a yellow aura... I'm sorry mate, but that is far from compelling evidence.

that's alright. but his whole body is glowing yellow. just because his ki stops being yellow in later games doesn't mean that it never was that color at one point. not to mention that it might have something to do with him not being able to perfect the move. notice also that his eyes are white and his aura itself in the game was pale. that's never happened before or since but it's happening here.

#3: No, not really, nothing as radical as this.

what?

#4: Too small, as in it's WAY too small surfacewise to be the KKZ. not enough surface damage.

like i said, there is barely any surface to cover, that and the fact that the drawing for endings has ALWAYS been pretty shitty.

#5: Those explosions would have been caused by the transfer of energy minutes later, considering Ryu was in the water when they happen.

or it would have been the next few seconds, which would be about the time the colums start rising out of the ground. your guess is as good as mine.

#6: Yes, you do, both during the purple cracks part, and more noticably, when you can actually do the move in 3rd strike.

?

#7:The collum appears right when Uluru splits, and it also appears in the ingame version, as does the purple waves. The wound in Uluru is also glowing purple.

glowing is the ki word. not purple. ki colors have always alternated over the years as i already proved it to you.

#9: It's a similar technique. but not the same as KKZ.

a similar technique that we've never heard of or hinted about. thus, due to lack of evidence it must be KKZ.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

#1: Higher sources contradict it, making it mutable.

#2: Thats funny, cause he had a purple one in the previous frame, and crimson throughout the game, those two colour are his and he's always ONLY ever had them. Still nothing compelling.

#3: No radical change to the aura I mean

#4: The entire cave would have immediately caved in to the KKZ considering the amount of surface energy it brings to the table.

#5: Considering they where in a cave somewhere towards the island center, logic would dictate at least a minute or two if the island isn't overly large, more if it's a kilometer in diameter or more...

#6: The column appears immediately on impact, the waves about half a second later.

#7: Not with Gouki they haven't.

#8: Which is an unjustifiable assumption, considering that the KKZ didn't exist for another 6 years at least. Let me ask you, What did you call this move prior to 2nd Impacts release? Because there was no retcom of the Island Killer to KKZ even after the release...

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

@Kirikaze: It glows when it melts.. Never seen a lava flow?

Which is the point I am making... Application of force is entirely different, Much of that kinetic force is lost in the explosion when compared to Gouki's punches if we use your logic... It's a poor way to excuse Gouki's power by saying "He didn't bust islands with this ki shot!" apparently forgetting that it's an entirely different form of attack.

Please read later posts Kiri... The explosion your reffering to didn't immediately happen, I could explain about 4 different ways that could happen as an indirect result of the attack rather than a direct one.

The effect? You mean what people describe the pain to feel like rather than what actually happens... Which is all that HNN was describing, and BTW, it's STILL contradicted by other sources including primary canon. and it is still subjected to the same rules as any other energy projectile, ki based or otherwise. Dissipation of energy.

Sado22 Restricted

#1: Higher sources contradict it, making it mutable.

those higher sources being what? sf anime? the higher sources are not contradicting those statements at all.

#2: Thats funny, cause he had a purple one in the previous frame, and crimson throughout the game, those two colour are his and he's always ONLY ever had them. Still nothing compelling.

you see, right there in that sentence you have capcom's insanely stupid inconsistency. and you didn't answer my question? when was the last time akuma's eyes shone yellow?

#4: The entire cave would have immediately caved in to the KKZ considering the amount of surface energy it brings to the table.

not really.
for one, we have to keep in mind extremely shitty art. secondly, ayres rock is a rock on land. it isn't land. the island is land, going below the surface and connected to earth. you can break a loaf a brick on ground but shattering ground itself is another story. that's where your logic is wrong. islands aren't chunks of land floating over water but solid ground.

#5: Considering they where in a cave somewhere towards the island center, logic would dictate at least a minute or two if the island isn't overly large, more if it's a kilometer in diameter or more.

considering shitty graphics and a panoramic view that has to be pretty far away given that the island looks tiny. that's a good reason you dont' see the cracks. and again, its not a slab of rock that akuma is hitting but solid ground. the whole physics of breaking would be entirely different from that of ayres rock.

#6: The column appears immediately on impact, the waves about half a second later.

yeah, you're right. but said columns take a while to rise to full size. even in the SF3 ending they are not like how they are in-game.

#7: Not with Gouki they haven't.

-glowing yellow eyes when he normally has red
-glowing purprle arua when he normally has red
-blue hadouken in SSF2T but purple later on
-red messatsu hadouken in SF3 when its purple in SFa series
-red tenma gou zankuu in SF3 when its always been purple in prior incarnations

#8: Which is an unjustifiable assumption, considering that the KKZ didn't exist for another 6 years at least. Let me ask you, What did you call this move prior to 2nd Impacts release? Because there was no retcom of the Island Killer to KKZ even after the release...

when we do see KKZ he says he's perfecting it...which obviously means he's known it and we also know that he didn't invent it since all the moves gouki knows were from Goutetsu and no . thus it must've been around before that. lo and behold, we see him do a move that looks like it............hey, it must be it!
like i said, your guess is as good as mine, old nemesis 😂

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

#1: Interesting, So Ryu & Sakura can then stop massive walls of fire with punches & kicks? Thats awsome! Whatch Dan's SF4 ending.

#2: I already stated the yellow eyes being unusual, but it is also the soul occurance, Red and purple are Gouki's province and always have been, so that statement was not smart.

#3: I know that, but the island being a large number of rocks and mud connected to the Earth is not an excuse to disprove the attacks effect for what it is. Take a really long look at it compared to the Uluru incident 10 years later. Plus, you'd better check up on Uluru's size, it might as well BE solid ground.

#4: Read #3

#5: SSF2T Was before retcon, it's irrelevant. the SFA stuf was wierd to begin with, and both Hadouken supers where a really dark purple, not red.

#6: Umm, No, the KKZ is a Gouki original, He learned the Ansatsuken arts yes, but thos all revolved around the big 4 techniques and their variants. Everything else is unique to each fighter.

Sado22 Restricted

Interesting, So Ryu & Sakura can then stop massive walls of fire with punches & kicks? Thats awsome! Whatch Dan's SF4 ending.

what? when did that happen? and how does that refute what I'm saying?

I already stated the yellow eyes being unusual, but it is also the soul occurance, Red and purple are Gouki's province and always have been, so that statement was not smart.

unsual occurance. yes. exactly.
yet, it happened.
for whatever reason in the world they changed the colors around. therefor it very well could be that it was KKZ but just the wrong color. because it was the sole occurance where his eyes were glowing yellow too.

I know that, but the island being a large number of rocks and mud connected to the Earth is not an excuse to disprove the attacks effect for what it is. Take a really long look at it compared to the Uluru incident 10 years later. Plus, you'd better check up on Uluru's size, it might as well BE solid ground

i know what you're saying. but i think you're mssing what i'm saying or i'm not being clear.
think about it this way:
there is a large large stone sitting on top of ground. the way that would break would be completely different. now put that rock away and come down to ground which is not made of the same compounds as the rock and is a mixture of several different things including stone, sand, clay, mud, dust etc.
the two can never break the same way because the compounds are totally different. do you see?

SSF2T Was before retcon, it's irrelevant. the SFA stuf was wierd to begin with, and both Hadouken supers where a really dark purple, not red.

😐
there's clearly reddish (shocking pink if you really want to be fastidious about color) in there and is very very visible, mate. i even posted a pic. notice also that his hadouken is still the same color as other games but his specials have magically decided to be a blend of reddish, purple, pinkish glow despite NEVER being that way.

besides the color changed, be it dark or light. neither his ki nor anything about him has EVER been pink which it is here.

Umm, No, the KKZ is a Gouki original, He learned the Ansatsuken arts yes, but thos all revolved around the big 4 techniques and their variants. Everything else is unique to each fighter.

gouken already taught them a downgraded version which was different from the original karate which is why the way akuma and ryu gather ki is different. ken or ryu never "changed" a move as much as they updated or downgraded them. the motions for their moves are still the same, ryu, ken and akuma still do hadouken, shoryuken and tatsumakisenpuukyaku the same way. the only difference is in the powerlevel and how they gather ki (which i already explained).
you have no proof that they branched out and MADE new moves. there is no proof of it. even when speaking of the KKZ gouki says its the perfected version but never said, hinted or the likes about inventing it.

and lastly, my final point:
you remember how in SF2 there was a glitch where you'd throw out a yellow hadouken everyonce in a while? you remember how they put that for ryu in the next game as the shakuunetsu hadouken? you remember also how they took a april's fool joke and turned it into a whole new character, retconned the story and lo and behold Gouki is born? remember how they took the SF2 anime and took stuff out of it and made SFA3 sometimes going so far as to ripoff entire scenes? remember how they took the supercharged hadouken from the intro of the the SF2 anime and made into the denjin hadouken for Ryu in SF3? remember how they took Haggar's outfit and gave it to Zangief as his 2nd outfit? remember how they took the spinning lariat and gave it to Zangief and called it all a homage? remember how they took another "glitch" from SF2 with ken's tatsumaki senpuukyaku (and the original SF2 with ryu as well) where if done and timed perfectly against a crouching opponent who just stands up the tatsumakisenpuukyaku would capture the opponent and make him take hits from both sides of the screena and this was turned into a the shinkuutatsumaki for ryu in SFA series? etc etc etc

now, don't you think its possible (even plausible, tennabl, very goddamn likely etc) that they took the same move from SFA2 and said "hey, why not turn this into a move" for gouki and make it the "hidden" special.

I rest my case.

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma Kaze no Soldier

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
@Kirikaze: It glows when it melts.. Never seen a lava flow?
Which is the point I am making... Application of force is entirely different, Much of that kinetic force is lost in the explosion when compared to Gouki's punches if we use your logic... It's a poor way to excuse Gouki's power by saying "He didn't bust islands with this ki shot!" apparently forgetting that it's an entirely different form of attack.
Please read later posts Kiri... The explosion your reffering to didn't immediately happen, I could explain about 4 different ways that could happen as an indirect result of the attack rather than a direct one.
The effect? You mean what people describe the pain to feel like rather than what actually happens... Which is all that HNN was describing, and BTW, it's STILL contradicted by other sources including primary canon. and it is still subjected to the same rules as any other energy projectile, ki based or otherwise. Dissipation of energy.

If you said so... but do you think a normal punch would melt a rock and created explosion?

Even if that's a different kind of attack, the damage caused by his TGZ is far too weak compared to his what you called "a normal punch that bust an island".

Same question : How could a normal punch caused an explosion?

I can't deny too that it was a projectile and ki based attack not a flying fist. But primary canon never states anything about how does it feels. So the only reliable source left is HNN.

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

#1: Oh for.... Read the thrwad dude... SF4 takes priority over HNN, the source your defending.

#2: Your still running an assumption and basing it on inconsistency, that is extremely flawed reasoning... it's far better to assume it's a different technique until we have ACTUAL evidence.

#3: That STILL doesnt negate what the move does to the surrounding open air tho... it's all well and good to try and compare the two, and I do agree that the internal damage is different, but the KKZ's energy output is insanely higher on the surface than the Island killer. that is a point that cannot be refuted.

#4: What? No you didn't... The fireballs are dark purple... I just checked them myself, there's no pink, and very little red in them... it gets lighter the closer to the core, but it is predominantly purple.

#5: So your saying that Shinryuuken and Shippu Jinrai Kyakuu are not Ken's original creations? or almost ALL of Dan's isn't? Dude.... I can name almost Every current source that disagrees...

Sado22 Restricted

#1: Oh for.... Read the thrwad dude... SF4 takes priority over HNN, the source your defending.

the what?

Your still running an assumption and basing it on inconsistency, that is extremely flawed reasoning... it's far better to assume it's a different technique until we have ACTUAL evidence.

how is it flawed when i just showed you that you are wong?
and while we're at it, why have you begun replying like nemebro? its so confusing this way and i have to keep going up and down trying to see what you're replying to and sometimes the numbers don't seem to match.
foo! 😠

That STILL doesnt negate what the move does to the surrounding open air tho... it's all well and good to try and compare the two, and I do agree that the internal damage is different, but the KKZ's energy output is insanely higher on the surface than the Island killer. that is a point that cannot be refuted

and yet, chunks of rock are flying about like crazy. dude, its kinda obvious that the art is shitty but they've put in stuff to show how powerful the attack was.

What? No you didn't... The fireballs are dark purple... I just checked them myself, there's no pink, and very little red in them... it gets lighter the closer to the core, but it is predominantly purple.

*slaps DSZ in the head*
ya foo, look at the damn pic! 😠
😛

So your saying that Shinryuuken and Shippu Jinrai Kyakuu are not Ken's original creations? or almost ALL of Dan's isn't? Dude.... I can name almost Every current source that disagrees...

yes, yes, ken invented shinryuken, shoryureppa and shipuujinrai. that's amazing. i know. but they aren't NEW moves. all the names suggest, shoryureppa and shinryuken are just modified shoryukens. shoryureppa is lterally just two/three shoryukens in a row. jinrai is literally just a coupla kicks and the tatsumakisenpuukyaku. its not a NEW move. that much is obvious. like i said very clearly before, they've downgraded or upgraded moves but the basic move is the same.
now, come KKZ there's been NOTHING like it in the past...well, asde from SFa2.

~Sado

Shutter Shack Restricted

Wow...this shit again...

It's '06 all over 😆 seems like nothing has changed

Sado22 Restricted

*points at DSZ*
its all this dumbass' fault! 😠

Shutter Shack Restricted

I'm just wondering, what new feats did the characters in SFIV accomplish? I've seen several new ones from T6BR.

NemeBro Senior Member

None that I can think of at the moment.

Sado22 Restricted

exactly.
tekken bloodline rebellion feats>>street figher feats (minus gouki's)

~Sado

NemeBro Senior Member

What have they done?

Shutter Shack Restricted

They're all in the new trailers. Check'em out.