Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Deist is just another type of Christian based religion. I truly doubt that anyone was an atheist at the time.
Let me be clear: I am talking about Judeo-Christian fundamental principles. That includes all off shoots and sub-sects of the Jewish religion including Christianity. A belief in Jesus is not a requirement, and it does not matter who you hate.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Deist is just another type of Christian based religion. I truly doubt that anyone was an atheist at the time.
BTW, here is a quote from washington:
"If they be good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa, or Europe; they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists."
Curious he mentions a group you said didn't exist. Athiests were a big demographic that needed attention at the time (though unlike now it was restricted to intellectuals pretty much).
Originally posted by King Kandy
What exactly does Deism have to do with christianity? absolutely nothing, it puts no stock in the bible or christ. It is a completely independent religion.BTW, here is a quote from washington:
"If they be good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa, or Europe; they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists."
Curious he mentions a group you said didn't exist. Athiests were a big demographic that needed attention at the time (though unlike now it was restricted to intellectuals pretty much).
Notice that Atheists were at the end of the list. I doubt that "Atheists were a big demographic that needed attention at the time". I think you are just making this up. There may have been some Atheists, but I doubt they had any real influence in the mostly Christian community.
Deism and Christianity both have the same foundation because most of the people who became Deist started as Christians. Therefore, Deism is just an offshoot of Christianity in the same way that Satanism (an anti-Christian belief) is a Christian offshoot.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonHowever that they mentioned it is important and if you said was true that Atheism didn't exist then why was it mentioned? The point is that Atheism was on their minds at the time. Being that it is at the end of the list doesn't really mean anything either, if you want to use that logic then since they mentioned country of origin first that is more important and Christianity is 3rd in the list. Also if would want to look at it this why if it was a Christan nation why would they need to even mention Christianity?
Notice that Atheists were at the end of the list. I doubt that "Atheists were a big demographic that needed attention at the time". I think you are just making this up. There may have been some Atheists, but I doubt they had any real influence in the mostly Christian community.Deism and Christianity both have the same foundation because most of the people who became Deist started as Christians. Therefore, Deism is just an offshoot of Christianity in the same way that Satanism (an anti-Christian belief) is a Christian offshoot.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
However that they mentioned it is important and if you said was true that Atheism didn't exist then why was it mentioned? The point is that Atheism was on their minds at the time. Being that it is at the end of the list doesn't really mean anything either, if you want to use that logic then since they mentioned country of origin first that is more important and Christianity is 3rd in the list. Also if would want to look at it this why if it was a Christan nation why would they need to even mention Christianity?
I did not say it did not exist. I said that I don't think they (people in power) would openly be atheist. That is a good way to get shunned by the majority (Christians). I was also, disputing the way King Kandy was suggesting that there was a huge atheist community that created this nation. I was trying to put some balance to his rewriting of history.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonYes I agree that being openly Atheist would have been a political death sentence at the time, hell it is now but the question would be is why would they even mention it? It could be said that some of the Founding Fathers were in fact Atheist but wouldn't claim it out in the open, many of their comments could be taken for Atheist point of view.
I did not say it did not exist. I said that I don't think they (people in power) would openly be atheist. That is a good way to get shunned by the majority (Christians). I was also, disputing the way King Kandy was suggesting that there was a huge atheist community that created this nation. I was trying to put some balance to his rewriting of history.
The real point is that if the US was built as a Judeo-Christian nation why would they make allowances for other religions when that is clearly against the teachings of the Bible?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes I agree that being openly Atheist would have been a political death sentence at the time, hell it is now but the question would be is why would they even mention it? It could be said that some of the Founding Fathers were in fact Atheist but wouldn't claim it out in the open, many of their comments could be taken for Atheist point of view.The real point is that if the US was built as a Judeo-Christian nation why would they make allowances for other religions when that is clearly against the teachings of the Bible?
Because the founders where smart enough to be inclusive. The nation they built was not a Judeo-Christian nation, but it was based on Judeo-Christian principles. They used the only law they knew, and that was British. Britain is (or at that time was) a Judeo-Christian nation.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonJust because they based some of the ideas off of Judeo-Christian principles doesn't make it a Judeo-Christian nation.
Because the founders where smart enough to be inclusive. The nation they built was not a Judeo-Christian nation, but it was based on Judeo-Christian principles. They used the only law they knew, and that was British. Britain is (or at that time was) a Judeo-Christian nation.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I don't see how it was most, many things that the US stands for is against the Judeo-Christian ideas of the time and some of the major ones such as the separation of Church and State and the Freedom of Religion just to name a few.
Separation of Church and state was part of the teachings of Jesus. "Give unto Cesar what is Cesar's" is as close of a quote as I will give you. Jesus was all about being separate from the state.
What does freedom of religion mean? I think it meant something different back 200 years ago. I think it meant you can be any type of Christian you wish to be. The reason I say that is because of all the blood shed between Catholics and Protestants that had been going on for hundreds of years.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonI totally disagree what your view of Freedom of Religion is because it says religion and not Christianity, the forefathers were very careful in picking their words.
Separation of Church and state was part of the teachings of Jesus. "Give unto Cesar what is Cesar's" is as close of a quote as I will give you. Jesus was all about being separate from the state.What does freedom of religion mean? I think it meant something different back 200 years ago. I think it meant you can be any type of Christian you wish to be. The reason I say that is because of all the blood shed between Catholics and Protestants that had been going on for hundreds of years.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What does freedom of religion mean? I think it meant something different back 200 years ago. I think it meant you can be any type of Christian you wish to be. The reason I say that is because of all the blood shed between Catholics and Protestants that had been going on for hundreds of years.
Given that they could easily have just said that and we have quotes from influential founding fathers suggesting they had no special love for Christianity as a religon that seems unlikely.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I totally disagree what your view of Freedom of Religion is because it says religion and not Christianity, the forefathers were very careful in picking their words.
Then why didn't they say "Freedom of Religion and Atheism"? In the way you are looking at it, Atheism is left out, and there is no freedom of Atheism.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Given that they could easily have just said that and we have quotes from influential founding fathers suggesting they had no special love for Christianity as a religon that seems unlikely.
Suggestions that they hates Christianity is quite a stretch. More likely they hated Catholicism, and were afraid to say so. There is good reason for this.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Notice that Atheists were at the end of the list. I doubt that "Atheists were a big demographic that needed attention at the time". I think you are just making this up. There may have been some Atheists, but I doubt they had any real influence in the mostly Christian community.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
At the time when the US was formed, the idea of an atheist was unheard of.
The above has been proven false.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Deism and Christianity both have the same foundation because most of the people who became Deist started as Christians. Therefore, Deism is just an offshoot of Christianity in the same way that Satanism (an anti-Christian belief) is a Christian offshoot.
That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. Satanism is a Christian offshoot because it borrows Christian terminology and ideas. Deism has only one similarity to christianity: It is monotheistic. That is literally the only thing that is the same. And if you're using that argument you might as well say "all the founding fathers worshiped Aten the sun god to one degree or another", since that too is monotheistic.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All of the founders were Christian in one way or another, and to one degree or another.
The above has been proven false.
This leads to the idea that the following is also false:
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The US was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The above has been proven false.
Unheard of does not mean does not exist. Unheard of only mean uncommon. Therefore you are wrong.
Originally posted by King Kandy
That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. Satanism is a Christian offshoot because it borrows Christian terminology and ideas. Deism has only one similarity to christianity: It is monotheistic. That is literally the only thing that is the same. And if you're using that argument you might as well say "all the founding fathers worshiped Aten the sun god to one degree or another", since that too is monotheistic.
Look at the fundamental principles of Deism, it is the same as Christianity.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The above has been proven false.
My statement is not false. A few Deists among a lot Christians do not make Christians in the minority.
Originally posted by King Kandy
This leads to the idea that the following is also false:
The majority of founder of the USA were Christian.