Originally posted by King Kandy
Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson flat out said they hated the bible.
That is not the augment. We are talking about basic Judeo-Chrisitian principles. Are you saying that they hated every last part of the bible? I have a feeling they were like everyone else in the world; they did not like some things, but did like others. Please provide a quote to clarify this.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Look at the fundamental principles of Deism, it is the same as Christianity.
Reason leads to religious truths, rather than faith.
Rejection of all religious texts, miracles and traditional creation stories.
While God might be in charge he is also totally absent.
Belief in determinism rather than free will granted by God.
Argument that supplicatory prayer is pointless, unneeded and potentially rude.
It's just like Christianity!
To plainly say they were "Christians" is a bit misleading. Some of them were, but others were deitists, or believed in one spirtual being (God if you will) which had very little to do with governing their lives on earth.However, it is important to note that all of the Founding Fathers followed Christian doctrine for rules on how to conduct ones self, for it was so intertwined with the society. Benjamin Franklin probably explains it best when he, to paraphrase, said that although he is unsure of whether God exists or not, he felt it was better to believe in Christianity and the Christian God than not to, for the Christian teachings prevented moral anarchy. Thus, our nation was founded on Christian principles because the Founding Generation recognized the value in them to create a moral, virtuous society.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_religion_were_the_Founding_Fathers
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Reason leads to religious truths, rather than faith.
Rejection of all religious texts, miracles and traditional creation stories.
While God might be in charge he is also totally absent.
Belief in determinism rather than free will granted by God.
Argument that supplicatory prayer is pointless, unneeded and potentially rude.It's just like Christianity!
I don't believe in Chrisitiaty.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Unheard of does not mean does not exist. Unheard of only mean uncommon. Therefore you are wrong.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Look at the fundamental principles of Deism, it is the same as Christianity.
They are pretty much polar opposites outside of both being monotheistic.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My statement is not false. A few Deists among a lot Christians do not make Christians in the minority.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The majority of founder of the USA were Christian.
Originally posted by King Kandy
True, but you said ALL of them were. Fact is when Deists can become president then clearly christianity did not have the monopoly on politics.
This isn't necessarily true. There was probably never a point where Christianity wasn't culturally as relevant in America as it is today (maybe with different pro/re-gressive flavors). We have access to these individual's thoughts on Christianity because their private thoughts have finally been released to the public to read. If these politicians didn't at least appeal to Christian sensibilities they likely would never have won office.
Originally posted by inimalist
This isn't necessarily true. There was probably never a point where Christianity wasn't culturally as relevant in America as it is today (maybe with different pro/re-gressive flavors). We have access to these individual's thoughts on Christianity because their private thoughts have finally been released to the public to read. If these politicians didn't at least appeal to Christian sensibilities they likely would never have won office.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is not the augment. We are talking about basic Judeo-Chrisitian principles. Are you saying that they hated every last part of the bible? I have a feeling they were like everyone else in the world; they did not like some things, but did like others. Please provide a quote to clarify this.
However, before all these principles were called "Judeo-Christian," they were called "being morally responsible." so the founders wrote a document based around what the morals of the govt. should look like, and "do unto others as you would like them to do unto you" was and is a principle that many people [of all religions] use. it just happens to sound like "love thy neighbor" and all that stuff.
Hmmm... which came first, the principle or the religion claiming it?
Originally posted by King Kandy
Jefferson published his own revision of the bible where he removed all the miracles and mystic aspects because he thought they were nonsense. How is that not putting his Deism in the public eye?
indeed he might have, but how many of the nations voting public read the book, or would have even cared so long as Jefferson wasn't blaspheming on the podium?
Nobody is arguing that people who weren't absolute Christians have had power in the country, however, given the religiosity of the American public, it is arguable that Christianity has always had a power over politics in America.
Jefferson clearly couldn't have ran were he to make speeches about how the God 90% of the population believed in rabidly probably didn't exist, could he?
Originally posted by inimalist
indeed he might have, but how many of the nations voting public read the book, or would have even cared so long as Jefferson wasn't blaspheming on the podium?Nobody is arguing that people who weren't absolute Christians have had power in the country, however, given the religiosity of the American public, it is arguable that Christianity has always had a power over politics in America.
Jefferson clearly couldn't have ran were he to make speeches about how the God 90% of the population believed in rabidly probably didn't exist, could he?
Non-christians were president in the past. Nowadays, no non-christian could become president. We've taken a step back.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
However that they mentioned it is important and if you said was true that Atheism didn't exist then why was it mentioned? The point is that Atheism was on their minds at the time. Being that it is at the end of the list doesn't really mean anything either, if you want to use that logic then since they mentioned country of origin first that is more important and Christianity is 3rd in the list. Also if would want to look at it this why if it was a Christan nation why would they need to even mention Christianity?
"Deists are people who want there to be a god, minus rules and responsibilities."
-Dinesh D'Souza
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
"Deists are people who want there to be a god, minus rules and responsibilities."-Dinesh D'Souza
Mind you this is the guy who wrote The Enemy at Home.
Deists were more like people who saw the hand of god as the only explanation for existence but after looking saw no evidence of it doing anything in the modern world.
its funny, how a bunch of ****ers ran away from england complaining that it did not "seperate" church and state, came to america, drove out the natives, fought a BITTER war for secularism and freedom from the colonial british and ESTABLISHED a nation based on "seperation of church and state" only to find 200 years later that it became THE MOST relegious first world country on the planet while britian in contrast became a VERY secular nation. has a morbid sense of humour to it doesnt it. and yes many of the founding fathers were DEISTS which is very different from THEISTS or CHRISTIAN theists to be exact. even among the christian father who might have PERSONALLY prayed for the nation in a christian way or considered morality to be christian, there was a LEGAL consesnsus that the only way to CREATE a free nation in contrast to europe at the time which was filled with relegious persecution, WAS to seperate church and state fundamentally. america might have been a nation OF christians, but it was never meant to be a CHRISTIAN nation, there is a huge difference between the two.
