Emma Frost vs Exodus

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was under the impression that Exodus wasn't stalemated by Emma so much, as was sorta ambushed/prepped for by Emma... ?

IIRC Emma held him off and he was unable to use other powers while Dust snuck into his bodily openings and tore him up. He seemed quite sure he was going to win until he started bleeding from his mouth.
Given how efficient a multitasker Exodus have been in the past, this smells of PIS. He blasted a depowered Magneto aside just fine when he fought Xavier mentally. Mags` attack was from the behind even. Not to mention the Genosha fight.

Originally posted by 753
?

That's just an alternate future description. It's as far from canon as it can be.

Exodus did naem his top 5 telepaths including Emma, but he ignored some other characters that were above them both. Besides his list wasnt based on raw power, but on the capacity to pull a particular feat: fooling people into believing the fate diaries were still arround IIRC. So I wouldn't take that statement too seriously.

Just like HCT. It was changed after Illyana came back in time to save the X-Men.

Only 5 telepaths he knows off could pull of that feat. He knows people like Nate. But the Nate he met was Pre-Shaman whose powers fluctuated and wasn't that skilled telepathically. Emma was even teaching him stuff when they met.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was under the impression that Exodus wasn't stalemated by Emma so much, as was sorta ambushed/prepped for by Emma... ?

She walked up to him and engaged him in the astral plane. Because she engaged him telepathically both couldn't deploy their extra powers.

Originally posted by Mshinu

As for Martha manipulating the people at the mansion, I was speaking about Cassandra getting out of storage and wandering about in Xorn`s special class as Ernst without anybody noticing. Plus some other incidents I can`t quite remember, used to be a study of in on uncannyxmen.net or somewhere I think.

I don't thin Ernst and Nova are the same people. Whedons run confirmed that.

Emma sealed off Exodus' other powers, Exodus shut off her diamond, and the two were stalemated in a telepathic lockdown. Dust was just the tiebreaker. That's how I read it at least.

Originally posted by Mshinu
IIRC Emma held him off and he was unable to use other powers while Dust snuck into his bodily openings and tore him up. He seemed quite sure he was going to win until he started bleeding from his mouth.
Given how efficient a multitasker Exodus have been in the past, this smells of PIS. He blasted a depowered Magneto aside just fine when he fought Xavier mentally. Mags` attack was from the behind even. Not to mention the Genosha fight.

Emma vs. Exodus

Charles vs. Exodus

Both were written by Carey. In the one scenario Emma and Exodus were fighting.

The Charles vs. Exodus scenario wasn't a fight. Exodus even stated as such twice he was trying to coerce Charles into leading the Acolytes. It was very lopsided. Exodus trapped Charles in a painful Illusion loop and Charles broke out.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't thin Ernst and Nova are the same people. Whedons run confirmed that.

Really? How does it do so?

In HCT Cassandra tells Martha she can still call her Ernst.
Xorn even commented that Ernst was far more than she seemed. The no-girl/Ernst relationship seems very much intact between Cass and Martha 150 yrs later

Originally posted by Mshinu
Really? How does it do so?

In HCT Cassandra tells Martha she can still call her Ernst.

Austen f*cked up. He didn't realize that was what Morrison intended so Nova/Stuff was still at the bottom of the mansion at the end of Planet X. Ernst is just some girl with bad skin. Whedon revisted Stuff/Nova in his run on AXM.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Austen f*cked up. He didn't realize that was what Morrison intended so Nova/Stuff was still at the bottom of the mansion at the end of Planet X. Ernst is just some girl with bad skin. Whedon revisted Stuff/Nova in his run on AXM.

Actually right after HCT, in the story "Bright new mourning" Beast and Scott search trough the lower levels of the school, wrecked by Xorneto, and can`t find Cass` body.

I hated that story btw, Emma got owned by a common stone throwing punk and later thrown out of a window by a mob while in diamond form. She should be able to %#¤&#¤%¤ them up with little trouble.

Another detail is that in an earlier New x-men issue on a page where the powers of the special class was listed, Ernst was said to have "superpowers", not specific powers like the others. I remember thinking "huh, what superpowers?" Seems to me Martha even got into the brain of the editor, lol. Anyway it seems pretty clear to me that Ernst was Cassandra. May have been rectonned or ignored later but that`s comics for ya.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Actually right after HCT, in the story "Bright new mourning" Beast and Scott search trough the lower levels of the school, wrecked by Xorneto, to find Cassandra`s cell empty.

Another detail is that in an earlier New x-men issue on a page where the powers of the special class was listet, Ernst was said to have "superpowers". I remember thinking "huh, what superpowers?" Seems to me Martha even got into the brain of the editor, lol. Anyway it seems pretty clear to me that Ernst was Cassandra. May have been rectonned or ignored later but that`s comics for ya.

Was her body missing? I'm pretty sure it was Austen that messed up.

Either way it's not possible that Ernst is Nova. In Joss's run Stuff/Nova body is still locked up in the basement. As of now the body is still in the basement.

Ernst would have superpowers. She's a mutant.

I guess it was Whedon who messed up then.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Was her body missing? I'm pretty sure it was Austen that messed up.

Either way it's not possible that Ernst is Nova. In Joss's run Stuff/Nova body is still locked up in the basement. As of now the body is still in the basement.

Ernst would have superpowers. She's a mutant.

IMO there are too many suggestions during whe whole arc for Ernst Not to be Cass. Ernst`s powers was not listed because that would reveal she was in fact Cassandra. If she wasn`t Cass she sure did not show any powers except being a small very old looking girl. I haven`t read the stuff you mention where the body is back in the basement, but it could be a fake, a replacement or the real one could have been put back somehow since the HCT future has been aborted. Or more likely, the whole Cass/Stuff/Ernst/Martha relationship was ignored or ditched.

Anyway, I don`t think we are going to agree here either.

Originally posted by Mshinu
IMO there are too many suggestions during whe whole arc for Ernst Not to be Cass. Ernst`s powers was not listed because that would reveal she was in fact Cassandra. If she wasn`t Cass she sure did not show any powers except being a small very old looking girl. I haven`t read the stuff you mention where the body is back in the basement, but it could be a fake, a replacement or the real one could have been put back somehow since the HCT future has been aborted. Or more likely, the whole Cass/Stuff/Ernst/Martha relationship was ignored or ditched.

Anyway, I don`t think we are going to agree here either.

No, no anyone who has read Astonishing X-Men can tell you that Ernst is not Cassandra Nova. It was retconned.

The body in the basement was the real Cassandra Nova and the real Stuff. It was too big a plot point.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
No, no anyone who has read Astonishing X-Men can tell you that Ernst is not Cassandra Nova. It was retconned.

The body in the basement was the real Cassandra Nova and the real Stuff. It was too big a plot point.

Why can`t the body be a clone? As I said it was not found when Scott and Beast looked for it. It is also perfectly within Cass`abilities to grow one and put it there.

And the fact remains Cassandra Nova wanted Martha to still call her by that name, "Ernst".

Originally posted by Mshinu
Why can`t the body be a clone? As I said it was not found when Scott and Beast looked for it. It is also perfectly within Cass`abilities to grow one and put it there.

And the fact remains Cassandra Nova wanted Martha to still call her by that name, "Ernst".

In short when Emma trapped Nova in Stuffs body, Nova transferred a semblance of herself into Emma. That festered and preyed on Emma's survivors guilt causing Emma to have a breakdown and identity crisis.

Evil Emma used Kitty to remove Stuff/Nova from her unpenetrable prison. Emma was then going to transfer Nova's mind into a new body. But then Scott helped Emma through her breakdown and Emma stopped the transfer and stuffed Nova back into Stuffs body. She's still imprisoned.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In short when Emma trapped Nova in Stuffs body, Nova transferred a semblance of herself into Emma. That festered and preyed on Emma's survivors guilt causing Emma to have a breakdown and identity crisis.

Evil Emma used Kitty to remove Stuff/Nova from her unpenetrable prison. Emma was then going to transfer Nova's mind into a new body. But then Scott helped Emma through her breakdown and Emma stopped the transfer and stuffed Nova back into Stuffs body. She's still imprisoned.

Still not convinced, time will tell.

Has Martha appeared anywhere since?

Originally posted by Mshinu
Still not convinced, time will tell.

Has Martha appeared anywhere since?

No seriously there's nothing to convince it is how it is.Nothing ambiguos about it. AXM aftermath is important to the X-Franchise especially that run. Do read it.

Yes, they forgot her at the mansion after MC and Beast went to pick her up then she decided to take on Kid Omega she was described as a weak telepath...she eventually alerted the Cuckoos and they dealt with him.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=4180&disp=table

I put these in the Cuckoos respect thread.
http://img706.imageshack.us/i/nationx2page17.jpg/
http://img132.imageshack.us/i/nationx2page18.jpg/