Nolanverse Batman vs Burton/Schumacher villains

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nightstick, no offence, but you clearly have zero taste. Your completely off-base on pretty much all your points. One thing I noticed was that he wouldn't stand up to Jokers gas, ignoring that Lucius solved scarecrows toxin in one night.

Nolan Batman stands a chance with some of these with his prep time, so I give it a 50/50 split.

I take it I don't have any taste because I didn't buy into the TDK or Ledger hype? Go ahead spout the party line about how grim and realalistic it is, about how it rejuvinated a dead franchise, about how Ledger gave pathos and reality to the Joker, yada yada yada. Go ahead its all the same nonsense I've heard sense we first saw Ledger's "Scared and angry visage" sense he first time he uttered his oh so iconic lines "Why so serious?". In the end my opinion of the movie is the same a "deep", "dark", and meaningless mess with terrible pace and editing. The truth is while TDK may be a better movie then "Batman and Robin" neither it nor "Begins" is as well put together from structual point of view.

By the by. How are my pont off base. I am just curious which propaganda peice you bought into about TDK/Ledger.

As for the actuall match. Scarecrows gas was a single compound they had a sample of not a combination of half a dozen things from half a dozen stores. That's the difference. It's not breaking down and analysing one sample its going threw an entire store and finding all the right combinations. Unfurtunatly for Baleman he doesn't have Anthology Batman's super computer and similiar tech.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
I'm sick of the whole "Ledgers Joker is emo" nonsense. If any of the posers ever met Ledgers Joker, they'd be pissing their pants before they get gassed or get a gunshot to the face.

TDK Joker IS insane, he betrayed his own philosophy several times.

Sure they would, Ledgers Joker is after all a larger then life self indulgent on the part of the film makers and audience, romanticized version of said subculture. A real life cop wouldn't know what to do with McClane or Riggs either and a real life heavy weight would get mauled by Rocky. It doesn't change that at least in the movie world Riggs is a cop and Balboa is a boxer.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Sure they would, Ledgers Joker is after all a larger then life self indulgent on the part of the film makers and audience, romanticized version of said subculture. A real life cop wouldn't know what to do with McClane or Riggs either and a real life heavy weight would get mauled by Rocky. It doesn't change that at least in the movie world Riggs is a cop and Balboa is a boxer.

Originally posted by Eminence
🙄

Tell me with a straight face that's not how he acted, that he didn't spout the same anti-authority and anarchy rheotoric as said subculture.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Tell me with a straight face that's not how he acted, that he didn't spout the same anti-authority and anarchy rheotoric as said subculture.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
🙄 Is the average emo an actual nilhilist like TDK Joker? Are they a tactical genius? A specialist at mind****ery and subterfuge? Are they talented chemists?

Was TDK Joker a tactical genius? I recall huge conspicious crude bombs and idiotic opponents? Most emo's are actually rather good at driving people nuts(think about it were talking about overweight guys in tight purple womens pant, what's that do to your mind?)? On the other hand he had at least passable skill in chemistry.

I'm sorry TDK Joker was not some insane, unstoppable mastermind. He was more like another couch surfing emo, with a copy of the anarchists cook book.

Originally posted by omgchos
Like i said before. He only did the anarchy bit to sway two face into his killing spree. All the rest of his stuff was just to, as i said before, watch the world burn.

Watch the world burn=chaos=anarchy more or less. No it wasn't the entirety of his mess of a philosophy, but it more or less sums it up. No matter how much angst and darkness you want to read into his rather bog standered performance. For the record talk to people in said subculture. For the most part their "philosophy" is just as transient and mood dependent.

Also for all your claims of praise for Nicholson, for all your claims of my bias. I see no attempt by you defend Nicholson and considering more people were taking shots at him then Ledger Joker and did so before I expressed my oppinion on TDk/Ledger Joker. It would appear that while you pretend to walk the fence you have a far different, far more bias oppinion on the matter in reality.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Watch the world burn=chaos=anarchy more or less. No it wasn't the entirety of his mess of a philosophy, but it more or less sums it up. No matter how much angst and darkness you want to read into his rather bog standered performance. For the record talk to people in said subculture. For the most part their "philosophy" is just as transient and mood dependent.

Also for all your claims of praise for Nicholson, for all your claims of my bias. I see no attempt by you defend Nicholson and considering more people were taking shots at him then Ledger Joker and did so before I expressed my oppinion on TDk/Ledger Joker. It would appear that while you pretend to walk the fence you have a far different, far more bias oppinion on the matter in reality.

Originally posted by omgchos
Again you fail to make a point. I said once that you might have nicholson bias. Only once. You just keep spouting this pointless mess. Most anarchists are not emo in the first place. Emo isn't even a subculture. Its a made up word to describe lil outcast kids who wear tight pants and cut themselves. Get your facts straight man.

For the love of god. You people can take things a little to literal. I used Emo(as well as goth and punker rocker(who if you ask them are different groups, that is if they are in the mood for labels) to invoke a certain image and group. It was an easily identified commentary on the nature of Ledgers character and no it wasn't perfect, but it made my point and still does.

As to whether it is a subculture or not. Well freind it has identifible styles, moors, and ethics(some identified by you yourself above). That differ from the mainstream societies in which it exists.

All that aside as interesting as this conversation is. It is derailing the orginal purpose of the thread and as it is oppinion based. Is likely to go unresolved.

See what i mean about not making a point. When you are insulting or otherwise degrading something the "same diffeence argument" does not apply.

Originally posted by omgchos
See what i mean about not making a point. When you are insulting or otherwise degrading something the "same diffeence argument" does not apply.

I'm sorry what the hell are you talking about? What same difference argument?

More to the point, what points have you proven and your made. To some up your argument so far its been. "hey you don't like what I like you must be biased, wrong, or stupid". You started with claiming bias, moved on to wrong, and are know creeping into stupid territory. So stop.

Originally posted by Nightstick
I'm sorry what the hell are you talking about? What same difference argument?

More to the point, what points have you proven and your made. To some up your argument so far its been. "hey you don't like what I like you must be biased, wrong, or stupid". You started with claiming bias, moved on to wrong, and are know creeping into stupid territory. So stop.

Originally posted by omgchos
Actually i said that stacking up ledger's and nicholsons performance, and saying nothing except that ledgers was emo garbage shows an obvious bias.

I think the word you are looking for is prefrence. Not bias. Maybe you didn't hear, but people are allowed to have oppinion that are different from your own.

Originally posted by omgchos

I never went to stupid until you started making stupid points avout how the joker is emo because he wants anarchy. WHich is when you said goth, punk, emo, and anarchy are all the same(same difference). Its completely false. So you my friend are the one who has moved and taken up residence in the stupid territory.

Again for those intent impaired. Describing Ledgers Joker as an Emo, Goth, or Punk Rocker invoked the needed images to illustrate my point/oppinion on his character and performance at least to the none literal, non-over anylitical members of the audience. For the record I never said that all those groups were the same. Infact it was you not me in your typical arrogance that relagatted them to "lil outcast kids who cut themselves" instead of identifing them as a social group.

For the record your own bias is in plain site now. You are abviously a member of the have to worship Ledger party. Because while you claim a certain affinity for Nicholson and the other Batman pictures. Comments in other threads would suggest you have never watched them.

Originally posted by Nightstick
I think the word you are looking for is prefrence. Not bias. Maybe you didn't hear, but people are allowed to have oppinion that are different from your own.

Again for those intent impaired. Describing Ledgers Joker as an Emo, Goth, or Punk Rocker invoked the needed images to illustrate my point/oppinion on his character and performance at least to the none literal, non-over anylitical members of the audience. For the record I never said that all those groups were the same. Infact it was you not me in your typical arrogance that relagatted them to "lil outcast kids who cut themselves" instead of identifing them as a social group.

For the record your own bias is in plain site now. You are abviously a member of the have to worship Ledger party. Because while you claim a certain affinity for Nicholson and the other Batman pictures. Comments in other threads would suggest you have never watched them.

Originally posted by Nightstick
Was TDK Joker a tactical genius? I recall huge conspicious crude bombs and idiotic opponents? Most emo's are actually rather good at driving people nuts(think about it were talking about overweight guys in tight purple womens pant, what's that do to your mind?)? On the other hand he had at least passable skill in chemistry.

I'm sorry TDK Joker was not some insane, unstoppable mastermind. He was more like another couch surfing emo, with a copy of the anarchists cook book.

Originally posted by omgchos
laughcry Aww you got your feeling hurt because im pwning you in 2 threads at once. I mean seriously i started of with nothing excpet that i thought you analysis of ledgers role was false and that MIGHT indicate bias. Go back and look i made no accusations. No matter how many big words you put into your responses, it will not change the fact this whole time you have been changing the subject and making false analysis. I used to be a big fan of the batman movies actually. All accept the steaming pile that was Batman returns. Until i found them too childish to be taken seriously by me. I make no attempts at swaying people to my side of the opinion. You just seem content in insulting me changing the subject by convoluteing your post with big worded babble whenever you make a mistake. It quite ammusing to be sure.

You are not pwning me in anything. Infact a grande majority of most your post make little sense.

More over with your they are to childish for me now comments you more or less proved everything I've said about you. That you over-anylise and that you at least currently hold a bias against the older Batman films.

Also the idea that you can take any Batman movie seriously. Is just bizarre. Its a dude in a Batsuit fighting crime.

Originally posted by Nightstick
You are not pwning me in anything. Infact a grande majority of most your post make little sense.

More over with your they are to childish for me now comments you more or less proved everything I've said about you. That you over-anylise and that you at least currently hold a bias against the older Batman films.

Also the idea that you can take any Batman movie seriously. Is just bizarre. Its a dude in a Batsuit fighting crime.

Originally posted by omgchos
So you just argued that because i felt them childish that makes me wrong and that the fact they are in fact childish makes you right? And there you go with personal insults again. Is that what you have been reduced to?

I never said whether they were childish one way or another. I did say its a bizare concept to take seriously. Which be honest with yourself it is. I did say for all your fence walking "I like both" at the begining you are obviously in the pro-Ledger/TDK. Unless you are going to back track and say that childish is a good thing. Though it'd be a hard sell as you said you used to like them as in past tense. As for personel insults you can't really take the moral high road with that one you have been slinging insults and accusations from post on lets look back at just a couple.

Originally posted by omgchos
Well honestly i'd have to say that if you didn't think that both ledger's, and nicholson's portrayal were good, you have some kind of bias here.

and

Originally posted by omgchos
… you my friend are the one who has moved and taken up residence in the stupid territory.

On a different note . As this converstation is entirely off topic. I'd like to apologies to the thread starter.

Originally posted by Nightstick
I never said whether they were childish one way or another. I did say its a bizare concept to take seriously. Which be honest with yourself it is. I did say for all your fence walking "I like both" at the begining you are obviously in the pro-Ledger/TDK. Unless you are going to back track and say that childish is a good thing. Though it'd be a hard sell as you said you used to like them as in past tense. As for personel insults you can't really take the moral high road with that one you have been slinging insults and accusations from post on lets look back at just a couple.

and

On a different note . As this converstation is entirely off topic. I'd like to apologies to the thread starter.

If you are so concerned about the thread than stop responding and concede that you took my origional post the wrong way. And made an improper analysis about TDK/joker. I never made fun of nicholson but you keep going about ledger being an emo anarchist punk goth. Do you even know what you are actually saying? I mean its just repetitive jargin. It's not even an opinion. Its like you want nicholson to be better.

Originally posted by omgchos
Hahah those aren't even insults. When someone takes a poke at somebody and they use their own insult against them, its justified. Yours were right outta the blue. And you keep assuming that im"pro-ledger" whatever that means. And those movies were extrememly childish in the sense that they were almost a running joke. They were more funny than serious most of the time. And when i movie tries to be serious but comes out funny then that is childish. So all in all my origional point stands. You can't compare ledger and nicholson in the roles they played. They were completely separate movies. The only similarity is the material it was "based" off of. You apperently took that as a personal insult. All i ever meant was that anyone who tries to say which is better is waisting their time. It's like you can't accept that both nicholson and ledger did a good job, and that both deserve credit for their acting prowess. You seem to think because i didn't like the movies that i didn't like nicholson as the joker. This is a baseless assumption. I can like a role someone plays and still hate the movie over all. I used to think they were good like i said. So don't sit here and make childish insults about a well acted role in some poor attempt to raise jack nicholson a peg.

If you are so concerned about the thread than stop responding and concede that you took my origional post the wrong way. And made an improper analysis about TDK/joker. I never made fun of nicholson but you keep going about ledger being an emo anarchist punk goth. Do you even know what you are actually saying? I mean its just repetitive jargin. It's not even an opinion. Its like you want nicholson to be better.

I'm not sure the words opinion and insult mean what you think they mean. Look'em up and get back to me. Okay.